September 27, 2010
How Philosophy Killed My Children and Why it Should Kill Yours, Too
Parentage is a very important profession, but no test of fitness for it is ever imposed in the interest of the children.
- George Bernard Shaw, Everybody’s Political What’s What?
Philosophy, its oldest practitioners proclaimed, begins in wonder. Yet the wonder often directed at it appears with a furrowed brow and a patronising frown, a finger tapping against a chin. What is it good for, how will impact on my life? This question seems to dog the pursuits of philosophers sometimes above their colleagues in other disciplines: my physicists friends are rarely asked how ‘their’ black holes could affect the average citizen (aside from destroying you before annihilating you?); my film and art friends rarely focus on the use of film or theatre in a world filled with suffering (perhaps highlighting a powerful portrayal of that suffering so we actually do something about it?). And so we could go on. No doubt there are also some single sentences to counter the claim made at philosophers, but others have done this before; I wish to show something immediate for me. The reader wanting an answer need only search for them from those who are professionals, perhaps starting with Bertrand Russell’s famous final chapter, ‘The Value of Philosophy’, in The Problems of Philosophy (a very boring work aside from its clarity and this final defence), and the first chapters of Peter Singer’s Practical Ethics and Alasdair MacIntyre’s After Virtue (two mostly opposed books on the subject of moral philosophy).
As I said, instead of answering the question directly, I wish to provide a personal demonstration: Philosophy has thoroughly annihilated my children – or rather, stopped me harbouring any thoughts of creating children. It has ceased any joy, wonder, amazement from being created in little human beings with my eyes, hair or smile; it has severed any form of biological paternal ‘duty’. Philosophy grabbed hold of procreation stemming from me and thoroughly buried it beneath reasonable argument. I present to you one of many tombstones of axiomatic acceptance in my life.
How did philosophy do this?
Let us consider the overall consideration more broadly. An important part of philosophy is to shove axioms into a stretched, contorted mirror. The reflection casts the creature in a new light, forcing us who are reflecting on the axiom to reassess how it came to its original structure, which we held for so long. Topics we take for granted today were assumed ‘natural’, ‘part of tradition’, or ‘as it’s always been’: the lower place of women, slavery, the existence of gods, the power of priests. Nowadays the better sex, in modern democracies, is to some degree equal; slavery was justified and abolished thanks to people able to quote-mine from the Bible, and who were and are moved because of the need to emancipate our fellow humans from the shackles of barbarism and servility; priests were dislocated from the state-body, as demonstrated by the hard fight of the Founding Fathers, like Thomas Jefferson, and the Enlightenment project as a whole. And we all know the demolishing of god’s stilts made of nonsense that held him above all forms of criticism.
The point being: all this is a central task of philosophy, itself, or what might be considered critical engagement with the world; our history fighting for rights and liberties has been one of overturning generally accepted axioms that took root in various places in our lives (cf: A.C. Grayling, Toward the Light). Now our collective lives are perhaps better. To diminish the sphere to myself, overturning certain axioms resulted in reconsidering the entire basis of parenthood. For many people, overturning axioms is like overturning furniture in an occupied room; we don’t do it because things have their place, as it’s always been, as our parents did it, etc. We must not mistake stability for morality: just because it’s always been this way does not mean it should be. Just so with some of the brief examples I sketched above. Parenthood is an accepted part of our society. What I want to offer is that, whilst parenthood is essential and I think ethical, creating children is not.
The world is filled with orphaned children, who through neglect or disease or war, have lost their biological parents. Most of us are aware of the incredible work done by various organisations and individuals, religious and secular, to help these estranged orphans. The idea of the orphan has indeed turned into a cliché, used to bolster empathic feelings. The helplessness of children is magnified by the property of orphans lacking biological parents.
Africa is a place desperately in need of reconsideration from this level. The amount of children, orphaned because of AIDS (and indeed not discounting the 5,000 HIV-Positive babies born every month) , is staggering: at the current estimate it is estimated at around 15 million . In Africa, surveying the countries Uganda, Malawi, Mozambique, Zambia and Zimbabwe, 15% of all children under the age 15 have lost parents, either one or both, and more than 20% of these 15-year old children are orphans. In South Africa, there is an estimated 2.3 million AIDS-orphans. These AIDS-orphans are significantly less likely to gain an education , are more likely to be involved in further health risks and themselves be victims of violence. UNAIDS has shown consistently, too, that 40% of countries with an AIDS pandemic do not have national policies involving these orphans, due to a number of factors, including the sheer volume of orphans.
Many people look on this with sympathetic sighs and throw up their hands: What can we do? Perhaps we can donate, perhaps we can volunteer at orphanages, shelters, and so on. But, I think an answer is needed that is more permanent, moral and protective of these children: Stop creating children, start raising them.
Why create beings to look after, when all around the world, like Africa, there are places packed to the ceilings with cries and outstretched hands and tears of those without paternal love? No doubt people genuinely want an outlet for their own parental feelings, of love, compassion, caring.
Friends or lovers, for example, cannot of course be the vessels into which we pour these feelings. French Renaissance writer François Rabelais said something similar, noting our different feelings when it came to children: ‘A child is not a vase to be filled, but a fire to be lit.’ What’s needed for our specific parental feelings is of course something 'smaller', something growing, a being who we can help shape to be a better people than we are, whose mistakes we can more easily solve having experienced some ourselves. This is a very human need – explicable in various capacities, no doubt most powerfully through evolution – but it remains ethical. Ethical because it involves primarily reducing the suffering of another being, one who is dependent on us in nearly every way. But here is the most important question of all: do beings like this exist already or do we have to create them?
The descriptive answer is obvious: there are beings that already exist who need our love, caring and attention, who need that parental duty aimed at them. I have highlighted them above. The mistake people make is, when considering the previous paragraph’s outline of beings to love, they assume these beings must be created. That is, these beings must be biologically related to us in order to receive the love and attention we wish to show. But this is a non-sequituur: why do they have to be biologically-related, or have 'our genes', in order for us to convey this love?
We also face problems of overpopulation in many areas of the globe, if not on the globe itself. Why do we need to create more people? I have not read any good defence or reason for us to create people, especially when this is compounded by the fact that there already exist beings requiring love and attention; love and attention many of us are giving to beings not yet born.
Non-existent beings do not experience joy or suffering, they do not lose out or gain. Non-existent beings, by definition, do not exist. To not have children is not to kill children; killing is taking away the existence of a living thing, but these beings are neither living nor existing. What is killed is the idea of having children and what is birthed is the ethical obligation we have to look after those who need that love and attention so many of us are willing to suffer for by undergoing expensive fertility-treatments, hours in labour, stillbirths, and therapy instead of simply taking stock of our fellow creatures and acknowledging an open gap so long ignored, so long passed over, for the selfish reason to create miniature images of ourselves.
For most couples, every child you create to love means another child you pass over for love. We do not care about these others because they are not made from our genes - we might consider it a kind of prejudice based on genes: genecism (pronounced jin-NEH-sism). Ignore the neologism if you wish, but consider prospective parents who spend hours, months or years and ludicrous amounts of money on fertility treatments, yet ignore the plight of children all over the world who need basic housing, health and nutrition. Children without parents but needing parents. How about taking all that money you would use on fertility treatments and giving it to a child who does exist, or perhaps investing in an adoption agency to acquire a child who is already on this planet? (To many, this seems the classical utilitarian failure: it asks too much. This does not apply in this instance, since it is actually asking for something less demanding. You will still have a child, but not one that has come about through struggle, time, therapy and failure.) Every time I pass a parent knowing they have created a child, I see nothing but double-standards, prejudice, and immorality. On what basis are we ignoring the plight of those who need our help? Why do we continue to create people, when there are people who need our attention?
There are a number of responses I have encountered.
If we all started adopting, there would not be any new children and the human race would die out.
Firstly, not everyone would qualify for adoption policies. Ironically, it is adoptive parents who face sometimes more hardships to qualify as parents, not those turning themselves into baby-factories. Any of us, if our required organs functioned ‘correctly’, could become parents; the question then is whether we should be or whether we can be. This is a deeper issue, not one I am going to explore here. Secondly, as the astronomer Sir Marin Rees has eloquently highlighted, the creatures watching the death of our sun in a few billion years will not be us. But we need not even think that far: According to some estimates, there will be no biological life on the planet in 500 million years. The point being, the human ‘race’ – such an ugly word – will not be here forever. We are part of the natural world, we have arisen through natural means, and we will continue to adapt to our environment. The great Jerry Coyne has answered in the affirmative that we are still evolving, for example, meaning this species will adapt to the point where we will no longer be defined as homo Sapiens.
The human race therefore, as it is now, will die out one way or another. Whether it is destroyed through warfare, disease, heavenly bodies, or changed via adaptation that gave rise to us in the first place, our species will almost beyond all doubt cease to exist. This will happen anyway. As we face it now, we have questions about how we deal with suffering and what we can do to alleviate that suffering. (I am ignoring science-porn examples of freezing ourselves, curing death, etc.)
This does not answer my claim, nor does it explain something even more fundamental. What is so special about our species that we ought to keep it going? When I read John Wyndham’s sci-fi classic The Day of the Triffids, about a post-apocalyptic world in which most people are blinded and everyone is hunted by giant, man-eating plants, I was struck by one of the first points of focus for the survivors: continuing the human ‘race’. It disgusted me because the central committee decreed that women would now have to submit to the awful lecherousness of men inserting themselves into these women, out of some sense of anthropocentric ‘duty’. The race must continue!
But why? It is so automatic in assumptions there are even horrid jokes about: ‘If I was the last man and you were the last women, would you sleep with me?’ – as if being the Anti-Adam and Anti-Eve means you have some duty to continue the species. No you don’t. We are not special. There is no cosmic purpose to us being here, nor is there some cosmic purpose we are fulfilling by continuing to exist or making horrid laws chaining women’s organs to the desires of men for more humans. The worst part of course is that this is not as fictional as we would like to believe: women are treated this way, sometimes even in modern Western democracies. Sometimes they also treat themselves this way, which seems to ignite the idiocy completely: the human species must continue, so I will have bagfuls of children.
This is perhaps the most fundamental reason people, I think, will continue to create children. Making people seems to push the horizon of death or at least complete non-existence further back. I will return to this point shortly.
How about I have one child of my own and one adopted child?
I call this fence-sitting: either be proud of not wanting to adopt, ignoring the plight of the desperate, or adopt. This argument has been made by so many people at me (as opposed ‘to’ me) that it needs to be answered. I am not sure why people find this answer appealing, other than emotionally it seems to satisfy the claims I posed as well as their own: It satisfies the charge that it is irrational to create a being to love when there are beings who need that love; and it satisfies the need to procreate for completely egocentric and bad selfish reasons. But it does not answer my charge from before: every child you create to love means another child you pass over for love (for many of us). Nor does it answer my other charge that we must start focusing on those who do exist who can benefit from care and attention, instead of creating beings to receive it.
The ‘fence-sitter’ response does not work because, even if you have that one biological child and an adopted one, you have removed a spot which could be filled with a child needing a home, love, and a parental guide. The fact that you already have an adopted child seems is at first glance an indication you are a capable potential parent for adoption agencies. You have taken that spot away from an existing being and given it to one who you brought into existence (maybe after extensive fertility-treatments, for example?).
I want my line to pass on. That way I will be immortal. I do not want my genes to die out with me.
This is the most obvious bad selfish reason, but at least it is honest. It is, however, flagrantly stupid and self-centred. It is prejudiced against those who are not your kin, the claim of genecism I posed before. Genecism says ‘I am only going to care about those who are related to me’ or 'only those of close genetic relation are worthy of my moral concern'. This is of course nonsense: even descriptively, we do care about those who are not genetically closely related to us, like friends, adopted children, patients, etc. To say that we will only care about children who are related to us is to throw away our abilities to forge long, wonderful, love-filled relationships with those not related to us; it is to be prejudiced. This is a nonsense claim and, along with all prejudice, irrational, stupid and bigoted. It makes no more sense than racist or misogynist claims. I do not think people explicitly make this claim, but it is told through their actions of discounting the moral worth of non-related children who do exist for related children who they would rather bring into existence.
~
Death is the great subject. To me, it is central to all problems and conflicts, lying like a snake in the long-grass of politics and philosophy, in the waters of power and corruption, and in the mud of daily existence. We must grow-up, realise we will die, that no one will remember us at some point. Most of us will be forgotten in decades or centuries; few make it as ‘legends’ – whether for good or ill. You might take offence that Hitler will be remembered longer than you, but just think of what he did to get there. Better to be sand in the landscape of human remembrance than volcanoes.
Genetics only takes us so far. We now accept that nurture influences sometimes as much as nature – the field of epigenetics is proving fantastically wondrous in these kinds of implications, for example. The point being, how we raise our children matters (sometimes) more than how much of our genes is inside them. Adopted children can testify to the feelings of love and devotion they reciprocated to their now deceased adoptive parents. Here, these people do live on in the minds and love of their adopted children, as they do in friends and close associates. What is so essential that we need to continue to exist solely in our genes?
It is ludicrous. We are not confined to the whims of our genes (using contraceptives for example destroys the chain of genetic servility). This argument, even if expressed, can be shown to be selfish and stupid; but it can also be overcome by simply observing the impact people have on others as they live.
Sure, we can’t all be a Thomas Jefferson but many can settle for being good parents or at least good people. Those who think ‘That’s not good enough!’ have their work cut out for them; nor is turning farmer of your seed solving the problem. In fact, that would heighten the problem and show up your selfishness, bigotry, idiocy and immorality.
People believe that by continuing their genetic line, they somehow achieve a sense of immortality. I have never understood what this means: surely, if immortality was wanted, it would apply to who we are as individual persons, not aspects of our genetic make-up? We might as well cut-off a finger-nail and preserve it. At least that way we know it will be around for longer, because who knows how long our descendants will live – long enough to continue the line or die before they can produce children? I simply see no reason to have parts of myself continue after I am dead. My eyes are not so beautiful they must be in another little person, nor my walk, smile, and so on. Who really cares about my physical continuation as opposed to the tributaries of actions aimed at helping the world? If you want some lasting legacy, leave it in the shape of aiding sentient species – human and non-human. Leave it in aiding in the environment, in creating wondrous works of art: music, literature or painting. Leave it inscribed into how you treated others, how you looked after the children you helped out of their poverty-stricken environment to treat them like human beings deserving not only of love but respect. Leave your legacy etched into the fabric of the world, shaping it so it more easily bends to the suffering of others, more easily creates gateways of autonomy.
Laziness begets the denial of these. Apathy means just spreading your immortality in an unimpressive, unhelpful and perhaps damaging way: creating offspring. The world is open to you making an impact on those who need it. If you want to leave a legacy, look to the world not to your genes. This is how philosophical thinking or at least critical engagement impacted my life directly, affectively and forever denying me the ‘luxury’ of breeding for the sake of selfishness.
UPDATE October 2010
Mr Nick Smyth has penned a well-written, albeit unconvincing reply to me (Smyth has corresponded with me personally, which a far better expression of his counter-arguments. I hope he will publish his thoughts.).
I have responded to Mr Smyth and recurring criticisms, too.
APPENDIX: RESOURCES
Some excellent resources on adoption can simply be Googled. But I do recommend:
1. The website for Adoptive Families - 'Adoptive Families, the award-winning national adoption magazine, is the leading adoption information source for families before, during, and after adoption.'
2. Andrew John Dutton 'How Adoption Works'
3. HowStuffWorks on Adoption - I know it is from a US-bent but still highly informative.
Please let me know if these resources are fraudulent or suspicious.
PS: If anyone responds, I imagine they will cite either David Benatar, Peter Singer, or view me as viewing the world too negatively, in line with Schopenhauer. I am aware of these.
WORKS CONSULTED
Case, Anne, Christina Paxson, and Joseph Ableidinger. "Orphans in Africa: Parental Death, Poverty, and School Enrollment." Demography 41, no. 3 (August 2004): 483-508.
Cluver, Lucie, Frances Gardner, and Don Operario. "Psychological distress amongst AIDS-orphaned children in urban South Africa." Journal of Child Psychology & Psychiatry 48, no. 8 (August 2007): 755-763.
Johnson, R. W. South Africa's Brave New World: the Beloved Country Since the End of Apartheid. London: Penguin Books, 2010.
Kürzinger, M L, J Pagnier, J G Kahn, R Hampshire, T Wakabi, and T D V Dye. "Education status among orphans and non-orphans in communities affected by AIDS in Tanzania." AIDS Care 20, no. 6 (July 2008): 726-732.
Posted by Tauriq Moosa at 12:14 AM | Permalink






















Comments
Dear Tauriq-
Please tell us about your personal experience with adoption. Without that, this column is just - well, philosophy.
I'm no hero of self-sacrifice. I adopted two girls after my wife and I tried and failed to conceive. But I can attest that loving them was instant and effortless, that raising them was the most rewarding and satisfying experience of my life, and that they evinced as much talent, intelligence, and originality as we might have hoped to sire with our own, superior genes. They are now fledged young women.
- Josh Mitteldorf
Posted by: Josh Mitteldorf | Sep 27, 2010 8:42:32 AM
What an offensively stupid article. So now I have to feel guilty about having a child? Not going to happen.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 27, 2010 11:33:15 AM
I beg you to read more about adoption. Your views lack nuance and it worries me that people might be influenced by them. Please start here:
http://www.fugitivus.net/2010/04/20/adoption-sometimes-gets-all-fucked-up-101/
Of course I do not think that adoptive parents are bad people (my very-much-loved godson came into our family through adoption,) but I do not think they are rescuers, either: to position them in this way is politically charged, to say the least. Adoption is far more complicated than you make it seem here.
Posted by: Rachel Chalmers | Sep 27, 2010 1:53:40 PM
Tauriq, of all the reasons to have (or not have) a child to love, rear and cherish, the propagation of our own genes is the least attractive. I say that as the biological mother of two children. But the mistake you are making here is that you are assuming that most parents have thought through the reasons why they give birth to a child. The overwhelming majority of the kids, including those born in Africa whose upraised fists you want to grasp with your own, were born because their parents just "had" them without much thought to the propagation of the species, shrinking world resources, their own abysmal economic and health status or whether they will even love the children they will produce. Sometimes of course, children are born because society at large expects couples to procreate as a "duty", sometimes because the parents need extra sets of hands to work the fields and very often, pregnancy just happens due to the ignorance about or unavailability of birth control. The question, whether a child will be "loved and emotionally nurtured" is a luxury in societies where the more pressing question may be if s/he will be fed or treated for ill health.
What’s needed for our specific parental feelings is of course something 'smaller', something growing, a being who we can help shape to be a better people than we are, whose mistakes we can more easily solve having experienced some ourselves.
Even there, with the severly abridged ambition, they will break your heart sooner or later and make their "own" mistakes.
Believe me, there is no easy answer, whether one adopts or gives birth. The struggles and the outcomes of parenthood are the same in both cases. But I understand your arguments for more adoptions.
"Ms Paul" :-)
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 27, 2010 2:14:55 PM
This article is absurd. The author is not simply arguing that more people should adopt children. He says "Every time I pass a parent knowing they have created a child, I see nothing but double-standards, prejudice, and immorality" In other words, it is immoral to have even one child. It is also immoral to favor your own child over a stranger. If a boat sinks with a load of kids, you are immoral if you try to save your own. This kind of hyperbole is very shoddy thinking.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Sep 27, 2010 3:39:21 PM
"Every time I pass a parent knowing they have created a child, I see nothing but double-standards, prejudice, and immorality"
So, in the author's view, it is immoral not to abort one's own fetus?
In regard to parenting, it seems that there's only one thing universally agreed on: everyone else is doing it wrong.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 27, 2010 6:06:59 PM
Thanks for this. For those who can choose – including most readers of this blog? – is the decision to make a baby anything but selfish (i.e., motivated by narrow self-interest)? The parents do it for themselves. They certainly do no favors to the unborn. They engender for their own gratification those who have no say in the matter. It may bring them satisfaction (as many selfish acts do), but it also adversely impacts others on a crowded planet.
Heh, heh. I feel the same at times (if I know they had a choice), though nine times out of ten, I wouldn’t put it so dismissively, not the least as a matter of style. Suffice it to say that I can’t relate to the instinct for biological parenthood, much like how, as an atheist, I can’t relate to the instinct for religion. To the extent these dispositions are left unexamined, I can summon no admiration or respect, but I do try to understand and tolerate them in others. Having said that, when are we going to get a Dave Ranning to poke relentless fun at the baby makers amongst us? :)
Posted by: Namit | Sep 27, 2010 9:22:14 PM
Namit,
If it were not for "selfish" genes urging all living things to reproduce, there would be no evolution and no life on earth. It would be like Mars. Maybe cold lifeless deserts turn you on, but they do not interest me at all. If you don't have a child, fine. You are missing out on the most rewarding experience life can offer. How sad. How cold.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 27, 2010 9:53:19 PM
I often feel this way about car owners. How can they be so selfish? It avails me little, however.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 27, 2010 11:25:35 PM
It is easy to be judgmental about other people's choices and we all do it some of the time. While I agree with Tauriq's philosophical argument that there is nothing sacred or even particularly desirable about propagating the human race, the reality on the ground for us humans is somewhat more short sighted. Our life is full of selfish choices for the well being of our own selves and of those we care about. Giving birth to children is probably in many ways a selfish (support in old age) and vain (perpetuating the genetic line) choice. However, it is also one which for many turns out to be a lesson in unselfishness and forbearance. Whether one "needs" to have a biological child to experience the joys and tribulations of parenthood is a question we can surely ask. And the answer in most cases would be "no." So, what is the answer here? That those who are affluent, educated, have access to birth control should stop having babies and start adopting the vast number of children who are born to those who do not happen to have any of those advantages? Fine. But are all those among us, (Tauriq, you included) who choose not to have biological children for the reasons given above, adopting the less fortunate children? The orphans, the abandoned and the sick? If not, then childnessness too can be construed as a selfish choice - of maintaining one's physical, economic and emotional independence. That too is a life style choice. I personally find nothing wrong with either choice but I would hesitate before I pass judgment on those who take a life-style route that is different from ours.
Also why confine this argument to child bearing alone in a resource strapped world? Why don't we question spending our extra wealth on anything beyond our bare bones basic needs - those of us who have the surplus incomes? Why should we buy better food, booze or other sources of pleasurable enjoyments as long as others are starving? Why have leisure pursuits when some are breaking their bones with unforgiving labor? Why have a nice house, travel to exotic places when there are the homeless and the war ravaged? Why not share and spread around our largesse beyond the love and care of a child?
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 28, 2010 12:47:48 AM
Namit,
"Evolution and...life on earth" is here whether or not any of us has a child. I am sure the author agrees that there is a strong instinct to reproduce, but the argument is that regardless of instinct, we should not. Your comment doesn't appear to address this.
"How sad. How cold."
Sad for whom? Surely not for the person who does not wish for a child, and not for the hypothetical child. Cold to whom?
If I do not raise a child, raising a child cannot be the most rewarding experience of my life. This is not especially troubling.
Posted by: CM | Sep 28, 2010 1:20:36 AM
Sorry, that comment should have been addressed to "J.Hawkins."
Posted by: CM | Sep 28, 2010 1:23:56 AM
It is heartening to see the positive responses to this article. It means that more people are thinking through the decision whether or not to have children rather than mindlessly adhering to social expectation and tradition. The few negative responses undermine themselves since they are emotional knee-jerk reactions scribed by authors who quite obviously have thought through this issue neither rationally nor in any depth. It is more articles like this which are desperately needed to stimulate rational thought in this area. My hope is that those authors who responded so vehemently, dogmatically, irrationally and emotionally will at least have been given some food for thought. For if we cannot subject our own beliefs, assumptions and moral positions to rigourous self-scrutiny, then what hope is there for for us in a plural society? Be offended and outraged if you will, but your unwillingness to assess a position opposed to your own betrays and displays your mental poverty.
Posted by: Catherine | Sep 28, 2010 1:48:52 AM
What an absolutely fantastic article! And the term "genecism" is going to be permanently adopted into my vocabulary. I've always felt repulsed by genecism, even as a child. I have now refined my position and am an ethical antinatalist like yourself, thanks to one of the philosophers you mentioned, David Benatar.
I also used to have a strong desire to adopt children. That was before I realized parenthood was optional and not something I particularly want to be a part of my life. This is partly because child care is, on balance , tedious and unrewarding, but also because the idea that I would be given as much power over another person as parents legally have over their children, and with virtually no accountability, makes me uncomfortable. I am therefore in favor of rearing children communally; this would result in children being safer, growing up less prejudiced, and having more equality of opportunity. Plus, humans have a long history of group parenting, so it is probably something we are better adapted to than the current practice. Of course, I realize such a policy will never be adopted in my lifetime, so I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of adopting an older child at some point in the future. The fact that babies are preferred for adoption is another thing I find sickening. It's like people don't want a "used" child, which just shows that children are consumer goods in our society, even though spending time with children who have their own personality and insights and whose ass you don't need to wipe actually sounds more fun.
You are probably already aware of this, but one of this year's 3 Quarks Daily Prize in Philosophy semifinalists, Sister Y is also an antinatalist and has a lot of posts on the subject.
Posted by: Another CM | Sep 28, 2010 8:29:28 AM
Tauriq-
I just realized you are the same person who writes this thought-provoking blog. I read some of your posts there a while back and wanted to compliment you on it.
Posted by: Another CM | Sep 28, 2010 8:52:27 AM
As a father full of double-standards, prejudice, and immorality, I applaud this article, it's sentiments and hopefully it's propagation as a viable philosophy. Some disadvantaged children will find homes and with a reduced population and fewer articulate first class minds to compete with my brats and (should they elect to carry on my double-standards, prejudice, and immorality) my grand-brats will not just endure but prevail. Thank you for your thoughts and their unintended consequences. Parasitically Yours, Pere Ubu.
Posted by: Pete Chapman | Sep 28, 2010 9:00:44 AM
I do not cast aspersions on those who choose not to have children. I do not call them immoral and selfish. In return, I ask them for the same courtesy.
Another CM,
How do you know that childcare is "on balance, tedious and unrewarding"? You have no experience on which to base this opinion.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 10:14:19 AM
Anyone who has taken a look around, and is still having children, is really not paying attention.
My heart weeps for the children I see, as the world they are entering will be grim.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Sep 28, 2010 11:45:37 AM
How did 3qd posters get so morbid? Perhaps you should all just kill yourselves and reduce the world's population. Of course I agree that population must be controlled. China does that, much to its credit. But most people in China prize their one child very much, as I do mine.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 11:54:55 AM
The fact that babies are preferred for adoption is another thing I find sickening. It's like people don't want a "used" child, which just shows that children are consumer goods in our society, even though spending time with children who have their own personality and insights and whose ass you don't need to wipe actually sounds more fun.
Another CM.
Ah, so it has a lot to do with ass wiping and not just the lofty thoughts about overpopulation, right? I told you that childlessness is also a life-style choice. Fine by me, just don't get on a moral soap box when what it really boils down to is that you don't want to get your hands dirty.
@ Catherine.
Where do you see the evidence of the following?
... desperately needed to stimulate rational thought in this area. My hope is that those authors who responded so vehemently, dogmatically, irrationally and emotionally will at least have been given some food for thought.
You sounded much more vehement, dogmatic, irrational and emotional about your own point of view. BTW, have you adopted a child yet? A baby who needs ass wiping or an older one with a personality you can enjoy?
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 28, 2010 12:41:54 PM
What Ruchira said.
I see nothing "sad" or "cold" about not wanting to have children of your own, as long as you really are prepared to care about the welfare of your fellow humans, many of whom are children. As long as Mr. Moosa and other male advocates take the steps necesary so that he never feels he has to deliver this little sermonette to a woman he's knocked up, it's all good. The less the merrier, as Pete says.
The thing is though, if you really do care about the well-being of children, you actually eventually have to care about their immoral, selfish, lazy, stupid parents. The religious right also have a big problem with this. And oddly enough, adoption is also their solution par excellence to child welfare.
Adoption, as wonderful as it can be, is not the answer to the child welfare crisis in developing countries, any more than third country resettlement is the answer to the refugee crisis. Many orphans in Africa, Haiti, etc, have relatives, even sometimes a parent, who would care for them if they had the means. How is adoption necessarily the most moral form of alloparenting in these cases? As Ruchira suggests, wouldn't it be more ethical to forego a few luxuries to provide medical care to prevent a child being orphaned, or to help an uncle, aunt or grandmother nurture the child in the culture in which s/he was born?
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 28, 2010 1:12:15 PM
I wonder how many people who castigate those who have their own children and advocate adoption have actually walked the walk and adopted a child? If they haven't, they are hypocrites.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 1:22:45 PM
JH,
Tauriq is not saying that everyone ought to forego procreation and—whether on not they have the aptitude or inclination—adopt a child. To not adopt after foregoing procreation is to at least 'do no harm'. Tauriq has argued that those who already want a child should not make one—which you can refute with counter arguments (to say that many others don't do enough is not a counter argument). Certainly other things one can do to help are not mutually exclusive from his argument.
Like so many things humans do, choosing to make a baby is neither rational, nor just a private matter (it impacts the wider society). Much like how you and others speak of religion as the den of unreason infringing on the public space, one can argue that this baby making madness (by choice) has been getting a free pass for too long, shielded by social custom, self-love, and musty tradition (not to mention tax deductions).
See how that hurts, JH? In other words, when it comes to irrational ways, those who live in glass houses should be careful casting stones at others. As for the personal benefits, I'm glad you're a happy parent. However, a host of studies now say that most parents—biological or not—get far less out of raising kids than is usually believed (maybe evolution conditions them to believe that? :). If you champion the idea that the religion-free can live a full live (and I agree), you should at least consider the idea that this is also true of the child-free. It depends on the person.
Posted by: Namit | Sep 28, 2010 2:02:14 PM
Namit,
Having a child may be irrational, but then so is the whole spectacle of life on earth. If it has no purpose, then it's justification must be that living things simply want to go on living. To be more accurate, the genes that produce living things want to exist and to evolve into the future. Does all this have a purpose? Apparently not. So what? The pleasures of existence outweigh the pains for healthy people most of the time.
As for creating children impacting society - certainly it does. It produces the workers that will support you when you are too old to look after yourself.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 2:19:09 PM
Hey Dave,
I had my first child when the Talking Snake asked me to, the second when the Flying Horse persuaded me. The Monkey God then commanded that I have third but I put my foot down and said no!
But that aside, are you a parent yourself - biological or adoptive? We know very little about you as a person, not even your real name.
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 28, 2010 2:50:45 PM
Parenthood is not unalloyed fun - any honest parent will tell you that. The glorification of having a child "of your own" is hogwash. Too many people buy into the cultural drumbeat. It may even be a bit masochistic - ruining one's svelte figure (for the mother, at least), sleepless nights, cleaning up bodily solids and fluids and orienting much of one's life around the needs of another human being. Then of course, the kids sometimes grow up to be okay and you gain a couple of more friends you can depend on - physically and emotionally. Not a terrible trade-off for all that ass-wiping. And I will repeat again, if one is foregoing parenthood not for the lofty reasons of desisting from adding to the world misery quotient but for maintaining one's "freedom," then childlessness is a life style choice - just as selfish and self motivated as parenthood of choice. Glass houses sometimes exist side by side.
My mother, a great mother by any definition of parenting, unselfconsciously used to tell me and my sister that early in life she had dreamed of an uncluttered, childless spinsterhood. But when circumstances turned her into a married woman and mother, she took to that also without regret. Both choices were okay for her - she knew how to make the best of either option. I can honestly say that for myself. I just don't feel that I am qualified to moralize about one or the other.
Just as there are insufferable "sanctimoms /dads," the there can also be smug non-parents.
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 28, 2010 3:54:06 PM
People who choose not to have children do not need to rationalize it - by the same token, they should not go too far in the other direction and condemn those who do have children using whatever rationalizations spring to mind.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 4:37:42 PM
Of course, as choices go, both the procreation track and the childfree track are selfish lifestyle choices,* even as they are not equally innocuous and have a differential public impact. I agree – and I hinted above – that it is wise to not harshly judge others' selfish choices that frequently spring from life’s mysteries, wonder, and a sense of mortality: choices like having a child, or turning to religion. Reason alone is not what anyone can live by.
I was struck by the pain that JH evinced when he felt harshly judged by those who do not share his disposition, but who, after a certain disposition of his own, often heaps harsh judgment on the religious way of being. This was why I invoked glass houses. If we can't take it on the chin, we ought to learn that in criticizing a similar order of choices by others, style matters, and perhaps even a bit of humility.
* From where I come from, the childfree track has long been declared pure selfishness!
Posted by: Namit | Sep 28, 2010 8:06:46 PM
J. Hawkins-
I see Namit already beat me to the punch. The tired old "you don't have children, so what could you possibly know about them" is just lazy reasoning.
Ruchira -
I was upfront about the fact that I consider childrearing tedious, so I'm not sure why you are acting as if you have just unearthed some major hypocrisy in my earlier comment.
Another point you have failed to understand is that no one here is saying childfreedom is the morally superior choice. In fact, adopting is morally preferable to not adopting, on my view. But creating children just so you can potentially "gain a couple more friends" harms those children; they will have to go through a great deal of suffering and eventually die. Tauriq does not discuss this aspect of it in the above post, but I will refer you to the work of David Benatar from the Appendix. There was a time when I would have agreed to reproduce - if my partner really wanted biological children, for instance. But I would never agree to it now because the magnitude of suffering experienced by an average human being is beyond any vain concerns about having a mini-me. This makes my position an ethical one. My not raising children, on the other hand, is indeed a lifestyle choice. If someone wants to raise a little person who is similar to them, but realizes that there are already children who need parents and adopts instead, it is also an ethically motivated decision. Their decision to raise children, on the other hand, is most likely a lifestyle choice, and that's probably for the best since I don't think people who do not want to raise children should be raising them. Hopefully, this will clarify some things for you.
Also, for someone who is self-admittedly unqualified to moralize on these issues, you have managed to do a great deal of just that.
Posted by: Another CM | Sep 28, 2010 8:18:54 PM
Namit,
You are certainly taking very wide liberties in drawing a parallel between the choice of having a child and believing in religion. I am offended when someone tells me that by having one child I am a selfish and immoral person. Most people would regard this as an extreme, even absurd position. I am amazed that there are people on this blog who can defend such a position. I do understand your point about the mysteries of life going deeper than reason - I agree with you. Life is a mystery. What motivates genes to survive and reproduce anyway? It can only be a strong emotion, a will to survive, and this emotion does not seem to have a basis in reason. My problem with religion is that it attempts to supply answers to the mystery of life by making up stories that have no basis in fact, but claim to be true. It is intellectually dishonest. Having said this, I do not intend to offend anyone who does believe in a religion. People can believe in any religion they like or not believe. They can have children or remain childless. I would add that having a child is a transformative experience and people who have not raised a child are incapable of understanding how worthwhile having children is. You might as well try explaining colors to a blind man or sounds to someone who is deaf. Opinions should be grounded in experience. If not, they are nothing more than empty philosophizing.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 28, 2010 9:23:39 PM
"But creating children just so you can potentially "gain a couple more friends" harms those children; they will have to go through a great deal of suffering and eventually die."
Holy shit. Really?
Posted by: Carlos | Sep 28, 2010 9:47:44 PM
J. Hawkins,
This is a philosophy blog and Tauriq is making a reasoned, philosophical argument. You aren't even trying to engage with that argument; indeed, you pretty much openly admit you're responding only on an emotional level, merely repeatedly telling us all how offensive you find the conclusion. Your offense is, frankly, irrelevant; as far as I can see you have yet to give a *reason* for thinking Tauriq is wrong. If you think there is such a reason - say, that he(?) is starting from an incorrect factual assumption, or that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises - then go ahead and figure out what it is, and let the rest of us know, and perhaps you will thereby make a positive contribution to the discussion which all concerned can be grateful for.
(Let's grant your point about experience; that is still, at most, a reason to suspect that some such flaw might exist. It does not, by itself, show that one does, much less do anything to identify it.)
Posted by: Jeff | Sep 28, 2010 10:01:41 PM
Another CM wrote: "In fact, adopting is morally preferable to not adopting, on my view."
It is offensive to birth mothers, to adoptees and to adoptive parents to paint adoption this way. Adoptive parents are not white knights and adoptees are not damsels in distress. And in the case of much international adoption, the birth mother is neither dead nor has she relinquished her child.
The circumstances of adoption are far more complex and vexed than Tauriq Moosa and AnotherCM imply. By oversimplifying in this way you are perpetuating the unquestioning colonialist attitudes that make international adoption the moral quagmire that it is. Please educate yourselves!
http://jjtrenka.wordpress.com/2010/08/27/an-example-of-an-ethical-intl-adoption-and-other-things/
Posted by: Rachel Chalmers | Sep 28, 2010 10:02:14 PM
Another CM:
Show me where I was moralizing.
Oh, so the children will undergo suffering and eventually death? As Carlos said, "Holy shit! Really?" I realize that you think that those who have children are stupid. But that stupid? Could it be that I am not as afraid of suffering and death (and ass wiping) as you are? I take death and suffering as par for the course, once you have been born. Which is why I also don't need religion.
I actually understood Tauriq's point very well - that those who want little people in their lives, should adopt and not procreate. Since one side of that equation will always be more prosperous, educated and healthy than the other, I see a kind of outsourced baby factory a la Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale.
Also, Another CM, given your fear of death and ass wiping, I hope your dues at the Hemlock Society is paid up. Because you will die for sure and it may involve suffering. And if you are unlucky to actually become physically or mentally debilitated before death, you may not be able to wipe your own ass without the help of a less squeamish person. Now, you wouldn't want someone else to do what you cannot bear to do yourself, will you? That's not moralizing, just a question which you may not have thought through in your smugness.
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 28, 2010 11:39:52 PM
But that aside, are you a parent yourself - biological or adoptive?
Two biological, two step children. It has been a long journey.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Sep 28, 2010 11:45:30 PM
So, when all else fails, let's accuse non-breeders of colonialism and anti-feminism. Let's conjure up some anti-utopian imagery. And let's not forget to mention the usefulness of children for wiping your ass in your old age. That will surely help carry the point across. Let's tell everyone who finds our behavior morally problematic to kill themselves - that's a timeless classic. Let's show the world how brave we are for not being afraid of inflicting suffering and death on our children without their consent. Let's claim the moral high ground for allowing people to make whatever lifestyle choices they want - except advocating views we disagree with. And let's all whine about how offended we are. Because the suffering of African orphans pales in comparison to our hurt feelings and inability to handle criticism.
Posted by: Another CM | Sep 29, 2010 1:29:44 AM
I think the best objective reason not to have children is a combination of:
1)The child has a very non-trivial chance of experiencing suffering of some sort (including wasting away on a deathbed).
2)The child might strongly disagree with the "rules" of the "Game of Life" on one or another grounds
3)It's impossible to either give or ask for CONSENT to be born.
There are other reasons I have, but they're somewhat subjective in nature. Regardless, I think there's no point in having descendants because humans (or our descendant species') will all die off one day anyway. By giving birth to them, you're simply passing on the burden of the extinction to someone else.
Posted by: filrabat | Sep 29, 2010 9:12:12 AM
Jeff,
Let me just say that any philosophical argument maintaining that you should kill your children is one not deserving a serious response, and one not likely to secure funding.
Rachel,
The way our economy is going, Chinese couples may soon be coming here to adapt American babies.
Ruchira and filrabat,
Yes, life does involve suffering. You forget to mention that it also involves pleasure, joy, exhileration and love.
Another CM,
You have strong feelings about the orphans in Africa. How many have you adopted so far?
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Sep 29, 2010 10:00:45 AM
We will probably be going through a population bottleneck this century, so all this talk is a moot point.
The question will be how many of us can live on this plundered planet?
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Sep 29, 2010 10:12:58 AM
Another CM wrote:
"So, when all else fails, let's accuse non-breeders of colonialism and anti-feminism."
I'm not accusing non-breeders of anything; some of my best friends, etc. I am pointing out that people who are perpetuating colonialist attitudes ("Those poor orphans in Africa! We must help!") are perpetuating colonialist attitudes. Film at 11.
"And let's all whine about how offended we are."
I'm not a birth mother, adoptee or adoptive parent, so you weren't directly offending me (except insofar as I find lack of rigor exceptionable); but you were being offensive. I would also try to point it out to you if you had spinach on your teeth, or forgot to wear pants.
Did you read any of the links I posted? Most of the "orphans" in Africa are not orphans. Even if their parents are both dead, most have family who would take them in if they possibly could; if there were any kind of support; if society weren't so heavily structurally weighted against them. You want to help? Give their aunt a microcredit loan to start a business. Give people the help they ask for; don't take their children away. Let's not even start on the situation in China, or South Korea, or Guatamala or Colombia or Romania or Haiti or Russia.
International adoption doesn't fix these problems. It exacerbates them. It turns children into commodities who are bought and sold. It tears poor families apart, for money.
You're all trying to make clever ideological arguments and you all seem to be ignoring the human reality: which is that adoption, especially international adoption, is an ethical minefield AT BEST. Adopting doesn't make you a philosopher-hero. It makes you an accomplice.
Posted by: Rachel Chalmers | Sep 29, 2010 1:54:13 PM
Another CM
I did not ask you to "kill yourself" because you disagree with me. I asked you to design a way out that precludes suffering and the need to have your ass wiped by someone else, since you seem to be afraid of both.
If Tauriq’s essay and the POV of all non-breeders by choice here were merely the following, I would consider it a question of ethics and philosophy alone - worth thinking and debating.
1. The world is overpopulated and the resources scarce.
2. The human race is not especially sacrosanct and its perpetuation at the cost of suffering, resource depletion and selfishness is not a worthy goal.
3. Breeders therefore, if they want the joys and benefits of parenthood, should adopt children born to those who don’t have a choice because the basis of loving a child does not have to be biological.
But the philosophical and moral underpinning of the argument went further – to the “responsibility” of alleviating the suffering and not acting selfishly. That is where the non-breeders stepped into a pile of totalitarian and judgmental crap. You see, joys of parenthood and ass wiping may be a choice but minimizing human suffering is the responsibility of all of us if you think suffering is undesirable. Once the informed breeders stop breeding, they are exactly on the same playing field as non-breeders as far as culpability regardless of what is in their hearts about having children. So unless you want to participate, forget about the sick and hungry tykes of Africa, Haiti and India. Let nature take its course and the human race will gradually shrink in size putting less demands on the resources and reducing suffering as well. Stop just there. Do not venture into the territory of compassion, just choices and altruism when you only want others to do the lofty deeds.
The offense that most people are feeling at your stance and similar ones as yours, is not that you raise ethical questions about procreation by informed parents. What you guys, the "non-breeders" are saying is that the "breeders" ought to be the ones solely responsible via adoption, for all the sick, poor and orphaned children of the world since “they” want kids in their own lives. And if the commodity is already available in abundance (and for cheap), why do it at home and increase the cost to society? I take it that you guys are also very concerned about the suffering, poverty and neglect of those children. Yet, when asked if you yourselves will participate in that beneficent act of adoption, your answer seems to be, "Oh no! We chose the neat and clean way of life and don’t want to get our manicured hands dirty. We do not like children in the first place. It's not for us to wipe asses. So breeders (and potential breeders) alone need to go out and correct the situation that is breaking our hearts.” Do you see how hypocritical that is?
You accused me of moralizing without showing any evidence for it. But your own moronic moralizing is like the flip side of the celibate Catholic clergy exhorting poor women to refrain from abortions and birth control. Each side is lecturing women to do or not do something in which they are non-participants either by choice or by ordainment.
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 29, 2010 3:11:52 PM
I should add here that I generally agree with most of what Tauriq writes.
Posted by: Ruchira | Sep 29, 2010 11:11:38 PM
J. Hawkins,
Speaking of forgetting, you forgot to account for the other two points. Disagree with the rules of the game called life and (c) lack of ability to give consent to the pre-conceived to be born and the likewise lack of the pre-conceived's ability to give said consent.
Essentially forcing life upon the person is not that far from (let's use a hypothetical) forcing someone four years ago to take a job in Iraq that pays $250,000 per year. They will get hazardous duty pay, yes. It will be more than they got at home. But if you FORCED someone to do it, they would not like it. The boo-coo bucks would likely be small consolation.
Fortunately, in the real world, the person does have an option to reject the job offer. With birth into this world, it's not possible.
Posted by: filrabat | Sep 30, 2010 7:37:50 AM
"Let me just say that any philosophical argument maintaining that you should kill your children is one not deserving a serious response, and one not likely to secure funding."
Did I miss something? Who said you should kill your children?
Posted by: MRM | Sep 30, 2010 11:36:58 AM
Did you read the title?
How Philosophy Killed My Children and Why it Should Kill Yours, Too
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Sep 30, 2010 12:07:24 PM
I think articles like this give philosophy a bad name. It is deliberately provocative and ultimately fascist in underlying ideology. It could even be descibed as racist since it advocates that better off people in western countries, who are mainly white, should forgo having children and care for impoverished children in Africa who are mostly black. It is actually so extreme as to have no credibility at all except, it seems, among "philosophers". Articles like this make me completely disenchanted with philosophy as it is practiced today.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Sep 30, 2010 12:17:35 PM
Hawkins, don't for a second think that this is the way philosophy is practiced today. I assure you, it is not. The large majority of ethicists working today believe that there is more to ethics than simply minimizing suffering in general.
Posted by: Joe | Sep 30, 2010 1:00:20 PM
The title is unfortunate, since what the author means is that the argument he presents convinced him that it is wrong to bring children into existence. What, if anything, is "killed" is the intention to have children or the thought that doing so is morally unproblematic. The title also poisons the well I suppose. However, it is obvious from reading the post that the author does not advocate killing children - simply skimming the post, in fact, would allow one to see this.
The charges that the post is fascist and racist are sloppy and false. First, the author does not argue that the moral conclusion he defends should be legally enforced by any sovereign political body. Second, the argument is never explicitly addressed to "better off people in western countries, who are mainly white."
Posted by: MRM | Sep 30, 2010 1:13:46 PM
Unfortunately, this post is a very bad advertisement for philosophy. I am confirmed that my decision to avoid formal coursework in philosophy was the right one. Psychology, sociology, biology, ecology - researchers in those disciplines would feel an obligation to provide a more complete account of human motivations and moral intuitions surrounding reproduction than Moosa's cherry-picked list of strawman "responses,"and to provide more useful insights and practical suggestions for alleviating suffering.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 30, 2010 1:45:32 PM
As for the title, it obviously is an attempt at a slap in the face of public taste. As such, I guess it succeeded in producing the desired response in at least one reader--sorry, J. I think Pete Chapman was correct in reacting to it as the moral equivalent of a "Surfing sucks, don't try it" bumper sticker.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 30, 2010 1:49:19 PM
These lazy knee-jerk responses to the post and accompanying denunciations of philosophy are so smug. The fact that an argument's conclusion makes you uncomfortable or strikes you as morally abhorrent doesn't make it a bad argument. And the responsible way to respond to an argument to which you have such a reaction is not to hurl slurs at it, congratulate yourself for having not studied the discipline from which it stems, or to complain about its tone. (I thought, up until this week, that this would have gone without saying in this forum.) The intellectually responsible and morally mature way to respond is to actually point out where the argument fails or to present a counterargument. As Jeff pointed out two days ago, however, those dismissing the post as absurd, sad, cold, fascist, racist, etc. aren't even putting a modicum of effort into actually engaging with the argument and giving reasons why it doesn't work. And that's just being a baby.
Posted by: MRM | Sep 30, 2010 2:53:57 PM
MRM,
There is nothing more "babyish" than this kind of philosophizing. It is absurd because it is so extreme. If you have even one child you are evil because you should have adopted an orphan from half way around the world. Is the childless person who fails to adopt an orphan also evil? Is it enough just to urge others to adopt while making no effort yourself? Is adopting one child enough - shouldn't better off people adopt 2 or 3 or 10? If the argument were moderate, I might even support it. I could support a law limiting children to 2, given the problem of overpopulation. After two of your own, you must adopt. That is reasonable. China was right o have a one child policy. This is my counter argument, and I think it would be far more acceptable than the position in this article.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Sep 30, 2010 3:33:39 PM
If I were to make it so no one bred, then what would be the total of the potential suffering in my old age? I don't think the post is thought out far enough.
There seems to be an underlying assumption that children and adults are net consumers. This is false. Earth has a definite content of material, but materials are fairly fungible given energy. Ultimately, all the energy we get is solar, and even for the stuff we use second hand (hydrocarbons), alternatives exist if we have enough people to both create and synthesize them. If we weren't here something else would use the energy, and I don;t think it has any better claim to it than we do.
Without lots of people, and a sizable portion of them perpetuating themselves, the system we have falls apart. I don;t think there are a lot of justifications for making people have children, but there are arguments for not impeding the process, and perhaps even encouraging it in some areas.
Posted by: Bellisaurius | Sep 30, 2010 3:51:33 PM
" (I thought, up until this week, that this would have gone without saying in this forum.)"
Now you've done it, Hawkins.
Posted by: Carlos | Sep 30, 2010 4:40:54 PM
MRM, substantive objections have been raised, you just choose to ignore them.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Sep 30, 2010 5:56:27 PM
"substantive objections have been raised ..."
Yes, they have. And those who raised substantive objections obviously didn't feel the need to respond to me, since they knew my comments weren't directed at them.
Posted by: MRM | Oct 1, 2010 2:48:07 PM
"China was right [t]o have a one child policy. This is my counter argument, and I think it would be far more acceptable than the position in this article."
This is astonishing. Tauriq's a sad, cold-hearted, fascist, racist totalitarian for raising a moral objection to procreation. On the other hand, China's policy of legally forbidding couples from having more than one child - a policy that has resulted in infanticide and forced abortions and perpetuated a culture of male chauvinism - is cool.
Posted by: MRM | Oct 1, 2010 3:02:13 PM
MRM,
How many Chinese people do you know? How often have you been to China? I have hundreds of friends and relatives living in Shanghai, Beijing, Changsha, Kunming, Tibet and other places. I have visited them and traveled extensively in China on my five trips there. While everyone complains about corrupt officials, not one ever said a negative word about the one child policy. If fact, most say that could not afford a second child even if they were permitted one. The horror stories we hear about the one child policy are largely created for western consumption by right wing religious groups. I would add that the policy is flexible. In many areas two children are allowed. Even in cities, two children are allowed a couple if both the man and woman are themselves single children. It seems that China is more tolerant and humane than your philosopher friend.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Oct 1, 2010 3:31:46 PM
MRM, so pointing out that a provocative title succeeded in provoking marks me as a trivial whiner, does it? My objection that an honest, objective, empirical study of the motivations and moral intuitions human beings have around the issue of reproduction would do more to englighten and alleviate suffering than this armchair philosophizing, is pretty substantial in my view. So is the fact that adoption itself is riddled with ethical complexities and ambiguities.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Oct 1, 2010 3:34:47 PM
Hawkins,
The point still is that Tauriq made a moral argument -- not a public policy argument, not an argument in defense of a new law governing procreation -- about the moral status of procreation. On the basis of making this argument about the moral status of personal behavior you (and others) then called him all the things I mentioned in my note. Then you went ahead and endorsed a public policy, that is, an actual law backed by the power of a political regime, that is without question - despite how your hundreds of friends and relatives may feel about it - an obvious affront to human liberty. So you defend the position of an actual totalitarian regime, and Tauriq's the fascist. I repeat: astonishing.
Posted by: MRM | Oct 1, 2010 4:03:33 PM
MRM,
How can you separate a moral position on procreation from public policy and law? To make the moral statement that having a child is wrong is to imply that people should not have children. It leads inevitably to public policy and law, just as the moral revulsion against slavery led to policy and eventually laws against it. Laws originate in our moral sense that something - stealing, killing, slavery - is wrong. As for China's laws - they may be a limitation of individual freedom, but they are justified by the extreme overcrowding in the country. I'm sure you are aware that our liberties are never absolute and often must be limited. China made the decision that, for the good of the whole population, controls on fertility were needed. But to get to the heart of the matter - I fail to understand just how having a child is immoral. A single child, or even two do not increase the world population. If the argument is that there are many children in Africa and other places that need parents,then I agree that this is tragic. I would favor measures to re-distribute the world's wealth, especially from the many trillions wasted on the military, to help alleviate this. Birth control, better education, better nutrition - all would help. But it is ridiculously simplistic to think that the solution is for affluent westerner to go over to Africa and bring back babies, as though we were all Hollywood celebrities.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Oct 1, 2010 4:23:27 PM
I'm late to this party, but I'm so amazed by the essay that I can't help but go a little beyond saying "What Ruchira said."
It's one thing to sit in a chair and think through the choices you're going to make in life; it can be useful sometimes. It's another to prescribe your choices to everyone else, declare that the world will be saved if everyone follows your prescriptions, and call everyone who doesn't come to the same conclusions and make the same choices "flagrantly stupid and self-centered ... ludicrous ... lazy ... fence-sitting ... [and] apathetic."
It makes me wonder what we need the Pope for, when we have some guy on the internet to tell us how bad we are if we don't do what he tells us to. (Of course, I don't think we need the Pope in the first place, so this is just a rhetorical question.)
I also wonder how many people Mr. Moosa thinks he will convince by calling them stupid, self-centered, lazy, etc. If helping orphaned children were a serious goal of his, I would suggest (as several people have done already) that there are more effective ways of pursuing it. That makes me wonder in turn what the real goal of the piece is. Maybe, as George Bernard Shaw said in the Preface to "Man and Superman," it's simply to epater le bourgeois. Or maybe it's to prove a certain degree of cleverness, or even to just work out a thought process "out loud," as it were. But then, working out a thought process doesn't require calling other people names, does it?
It's easy to change the world from your armchair by saying what everyone else should do. It's actually a little harder to change even a tiny corner of the world in real life. Since Mr. Moosa used a quote from Shaw as an epigram, I'll offer one of the many things Shaw wrote about the difference between philosophizing and actually trying to help run the world:
Substitute philosophizing for academicism, Moosa for Beerbohm, and the internet for the Playgoers Club, and I think Shaw has a prescription for Mr. Moosa. He can choose his own substitute for the St. Pancras Borough Council Drainage Sub Committee.
Posted by: JanieM | Oct 2, 2010 4:43:33 PM
So much bewilderment and misunderstanding on both sides. One might think we are debating religion. :)
Before I get to what I see as the failings of Tauriq's essay, let me note that most arguments that have been offered here against his basic premise seem to me specious:
1. Let's be clear that the orphans pose a challenge not just for desirous parents, and the response is not limited to adoption. Many here have unfortunately taken offense on this score. Selfishness is an equal opportunity vice, and this debate need not be seen as directed at biological parents. Take an example. When we argue for the moral superiority of volunteering our time for others, no one objects, "Wait a minute, how much time did you volunteer for others?" It just so happens that adoption is relevant only to desirous parents, sort of like physically demanding volunteer work is relevant only to able-bodied people. So rather than making this personal, it may help to approach this moral dilemma in the spirit of Rawls' veil of ignorance.
2. Arguments about white-black racism / rich-poor patronizing / colonialism etc. are red herrings. These constitute an independent layer, and there is no necessary correlation between one's belief that adoptions are morally right with one being racist / patronizing / colonial. If we don't admit such arguments for white European MSF volunteers who opt for Africa, why admit them in the case of those who adopt from Africa?
3. Saying that adoptions have practical obstacles and complexities do not counter Tauriq's argument either. How often do we entertain the objection that volunteering is full of obstacles, complexities, and new moral dilemmas (which is often true, but we are likely to call it an excuse for not volunteering)? When enough of us value volunteering, organizations and ideas to streamline volunteering tend to come up (which are not quite in place today for adoption).
4. This idea that if everyone adopts, population will decline into extinction is absurd. It is about as likely to happen as everyone volunteering. Nor does it have to turn into law, as volunteering has not. Further, it's possible to see a desirous parent who doesn't adopt as similar to an able-bodied person who doesn't volunteer. As an able-bodied person, I am able to live with the idea that I frequently do not do the morally exemplary thing. It is not necessary for me to diminish the moral worth of volunteering to justify my self-centered preoccupations. Likewise for those who procreate.
5. Nor is Nick Smyth's example in his spirited response to Tauriq's essay ("a strange person wandering into a hospital nursery and randomly switching the similar-looking infants around. What's wrong with this?") a fair illustration of what Tauriq has suggested. The point is not that any child can be substituted for any other in the hospital after birth, or that flesh & blood babies are interchangeable. By that time, a specific relationship has already been established, and so it is important to be sure that it is the same child the mother cared for during pregnancy. Tauriq is asking us to examine the beliefs that parents subscribe to before forming such a relationship.
_________
Ok, so what then is the problem I see with Tauriq's essay. Is adoption morally superior to procreation in general? I pointed out one problem earlier: style. His essay reminds me of how Sam Harris approaches religion: with the certainly of a fundamentalist. Might this spring from Tauriq's over-enthusiasm for what seems to me the pathologically pessimistic worldview of Schopenhauer and John Gray ("Straw Dogs")? It leads him to ask turgid questions like, "What is so special about our species that we ought to keep it going?", especially since it appears that "There is no cosmic purpose to us being here". Well, an answer as worthy as any is that nothing is special about our species, but it is still worth keeping it going because we want to and don't need a cosmic purpose to justify our desire. It is worth it because such is the voice of life.
There are substantive problems too. Procreation is morally not like slavery or oppression of women (which he invokes as examples of things that have fortunately changed); the latter are usually acts of commission, not omission. Nor is the world only full of suffering (as JH noted). Nor is our only obligation to alleviate the suffering of others. For instance, I also have obligations to know myself better, develop my creative potential, bring joy of those around me, and at times yield to the deeply felt expectations of those close to me, even if irrational—these form the bedrock of social life as well as of solidarities and cultural mores by which human society holds together. Downgrading my obligations in the "private sphere" and prioritizing the obligations in the "public sphere" may well amount to expanding the pool of suffering, not reducing it. This calculus, as Nick pointed out, will likely work out differently even for the most self-aware, compassionate, and rational-minded among us, but Tauriq is blind to this fact of human life.
It's true that some practical challenges with adoption can be sorted out. But one challenge Tauriq does not mention is our obvious lack of knowledge about the orphan. We know intuitively (and now scientifically) that an infant's cognitive and emotional development is significantly shaped by experiences in the womb, as well as soon after birth. Who is to know how the mother was treated, or how she treated herself and the baby? How likely is it that the child is "damaged"? These are visceral fears not easily dispelled by reason, and may be especially valid with babies in war-torn, poor, or drug related situations that Tauriq mentions. Doesn't this added risk (besides the natural ones that exist with one's own child) represent a fear legitimate enough to undermine the moral case for adoption for many desirous parents?
Posted by: Namit | Oct 2, 2010 5:58:18 PM
Namit: First of all, to clear up any misunderstanding, if you say to me that you are going to forego having children in order to benefit the children that are already here, I, as a parent, have nothing to say but "Thank you." If you say that you are not going to become a parent because you find children and child care tedious, then what can I say but "You're doing the right thing not to have a kid, then." If you say you want to adopt a child for whatever reason, I have nothing to say but, "How can I help?
Back to the original article "How Philosophy Convinced Me to Get a Vasectomy" (there-fixed the title- I realize it's less macho, though...)
1. You say "... this debate need not be seen as directed at biological parents."
Moosa wrote: "Every time I pass a parent knowing they have created a child, I see nothing but double-standards, prejudice, and immorality." I think we are correct in our perception that this debate is directed at biological parents. We are not arguing that gestation/birth are morally superior to adoption, only that they are, at least, on the same level morally with other personal projects that people choose to pursue rather than to care about other people's children. Approaching this issue "in the spirit of Rawls' veil of ignorance" doesn't change my convictions that no one should be forced to gestate and bear a child she is not able to care for, that every child, from the moment of birth, should have the kind of nurturing necessary to form secure attachments, that children should not have to see their parents die of easily preventable illnesses (or vice versa), and that huge gaps in the quality of life between for the children of rich and poor parents are an evil that must be addressed. These are things that everyone can care about and work for. There's ample evidence that promoting women's rights, free access to birth control, public health care and education, and social subsidies to low-income parents (which you, and I assume, Mr. Moosa, view as "incentives" to a project you see as inherently "selfish"- despite evidence that societies with these policies have quite low birth rates.
2 -3. Um, what? There are moral complexities to adoption, it's just a fact. They were raised to counter the simplistic viewpoint of someone who listed the howstufwforks.com as a resource. For example, if you could keep 5 parents alive by paying for AIDS meds with the money you would spend on adoption fees, would that be ethically preferable to adopting one child as exclusively your own? What about open vs. closed adoption, etc? What about adopting from a birth mother who was "helped" by a deceptive crisis pregnancy center?
The overwhelming majority of adoptive parents prefer babies. Mostly, babies are available for adoption because a parent, frequently a casualty of abstinence education, has voluntarily given them up. While one can admire the heroic altruism of a parent giving up a child to parents who can better provide for it, I at least can't help thinking that it no one should be forced to do that simply due to lack of access to family planning/abortion OR the inability to provide basics like food, shelter, health care, education. (see above re: subsidies). The choice should not be coerced.
You write:
"How often do we entertain the objection that volunteering is full of obstacles, complexities, and new moral dilemmas (which is often true, but we are likely to call it an excuse for not volunteering)?"
And how often do the police show up at your door because you were too busy or stressed to show up or find a sub for your shift at the soup kitchen? How devastated do you feel if, after a week of volunteering, the administrator tells you, "Sorry, the previous volunteer decided she wants her slot back, we don't need you anymore, bye"?
Parenthood is fundamentally not like other voluntary projects, in that it cannot just simply be abandoned when it becomes overwhelming. Adoptive parents also have to struggle with the process of getting to know individual children, only to have them snatched away by this or that vagary of the whole process ( I agree this could be improved - but it is a real obstacle adoptive parents face)
4. I agree that the "end of the human race" objection is absurd. Outside of this discussion, the only time I have seen it raised is to support the necessity of funding research into space travel.
"As an able-bodied person, I am able to live with the idea that I frequently do not do the morally exemplary thing. It is not necessary for me to diminish the moral worth of volunteering to justify my self-centered preoccupations. Likewise for those who procreate."
What? Who is diminishing the moral worth of adoption? Saying that it has ethical complexities and difficulties only makes those who address the complexities and surmount the difficulties more praiseworthy.
5. "Tauriq is asking us to examine the beliefs that parents subscribe to before forming such a relationship."
Fair enough. But for may women, the decision of whether or not to have a child boils down to the decision to carry a particular fetus to term. Tauriq Moosa says the only moral thing to do is abort, and adopt an orphan if she wants a child. The pope says she must give birth to the child, even if she can't care for it, after all, "think of all those parents who are just waiting for a little baby to adopt." (irony alert)
The whole crux of the matter is Tauriq's contention that adoption fills the legitimate need behind parenthood, and that anyone who gives birth rather than adopt does so out "genecism." As Nick Smyth pointed out, this elides the fact that adoption and biological parenthood are only reasonably similar for males. It may be that the desire to have the experience of gestating and nursing a child is just as morally reprehensible as "genecism". But it's a bit odd, isn't it, to leave it entirely out of the discussion?
It also elides another important difference, which you allude to a bit. Adopting an older child is another kind of project altogether from adopting a baby. Evolution has designed the human baby to be fairly idiot proof. A baby can elicit the right kind of nurturing from the most socially inept individuals, even philosophy graduate students. Older orphans will have some degree of trauma to work through, and that just requires a different skill set. Again, not saying that we shouldn't encourage or support more parents to do it, but we should recognize the reality that it is not equivalent.
My final objection: As a woman, I reject that my moral worth is defined by my childbearing status. Remember that in me, Tauriq Moosa sees "nothing but double-standards, prejudice and immorality." Any other contribution I make to the world is nothing beside the immorality of having procreated. I personally know moms who have won Pulitzers, founded environmental organizations, given up big salaries to work in health clinics for migrant workers, donated a kidney so that some kid she barely knew wouldn't lose his dad. But that's all nothing.
My 14 year old daughter just asked me what I was writing. I explained I was responding to some guy on the Internet who felt giving birth was always immoral and wrong. She said "Some guy- operative word: guy."
Mama didn't raise a fool.
Posted by: Vicki Baker | Oct 4, 2010 1:49:04 AM
There are some interesting points here, though histrionically made. The basic problem with the author's utilitarian argument is that children are not fungible in the way he suggests. There is no 1-to-1 substitution effect of biological to adopted children since there are not in fact nearly enough adoptable children available. Most "orphans" e.g. in the poor world, still have one parent, and most of the rest have other relatives who would prefer to care for them. Their problem is mainly poverty, not a lack of care-givers. Our moral duty is to alleviate that poverty, not to try to take their children!
I have discussed the topic in a slightly different way, distinguishing between the having-of-children as a private lifestyle choice that society should take no interest in promoting, and the interests of children-once-born, which is of general moral concern to society.
http://thephilosophersbeard.blogspot.com/2010/03/are-children-public-goods.html
Posted by: Tom | Oct 7, 2010 9:23:42 AM
I recommend you read the work of the following - mandatory reading in my opinion for anyone discussing adoption in a philosophical or ethical context:
David Smolin, J.D. http://works.bepress.com/david_smolin/
Trevor Jordan, Ph.D. http://www.teresajordan.id.au/ROARE/adoptiontj1.htm
Posted by: Margie | Oct 18, 2010 8:08:48 AM
Enough of this long and tedious debate. It is quite obvious that we need to establish an international baby exchange to be coordinated by a body such as Unesco. Every couple devious and evil enough to produce a child would be forcibly required to turn it over to the proper international authorities. Their crying and screaming can well be imagined, but this would only be suitable punishment for their egregious offense against our poor defenseless planet. Those poor souls deluded enough to want to "love" a child would then be able to apply to Unesco for a license to adopt, or LTA. Naturally, they would have to pay an enormous fine to compensate for all the damage their adoptive child is going to inflict on (said) planet. In fact, the pain of birth parents would be so great and the cost to adoptive parents so high that pretty soon no one would have children at all. We could then all anticipate a happy future free of homo sapiens, though it is a little unclear who would feed the dogs. The great dream of philosophers throughout history, the elimination of human suffering, would at last be achieved with the elimination of humans, period.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Oct 18, 2010 3:12:48 PM
Какая то очень странная статья.
Posted by: бытовая техника | May 1, 2012 7:16:04 AM
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