"Un-believing" is a luxury item. I mean, how do you ask a man sitting near footsteps of Baadshahi Masjid, Lahore eking out merely five rupees for a shoeshine, to stop believing. Or ask his wife and diaper-less kids waiting all day for his return to stop believing. They will believe in anything that is beyond his reach. And I say why not, this belief, daily misery and few bites of food are the only things keeping their stomachs full at night so they can wake up at the crack of dawn the next morning. Belief is their lifeline. Scientific arguments from people like them will never move me, they lack empathy most importantly, and after all "its" a belief not some convenient little sientific corollary, I personally will go insane without it.
Posted by: Tehseen | Feb 14, 2013 11:12:56 AM
Tehseen--
You make good points, and I'm with you that religion is an escape from a groundless and often bewildering situation, and people more grounded and privileged should not demean most of struggling humanity.
But these religious beliefs promote ignorance, poverty, and are used by elites for control and keeping the income and political inequality that the privileged enjoy.
It is more complicated than meets the eye.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Feb 14, 2013 11:34:02 AM
krAuSS is funny. In addition to sh*tting on anti-science right-wingers (a good thing No Doubt)and religion he also knows enough physics to dump on the humanities, philosophy, etc., thus giving these areas of human inquiry and meaning some publicity and showing why people don't sometimes like scientists. America does love obnoxious a-holes, so he's a good media persona to challenge Fox News types.
Posted by: flowers rainbows | Feb 14, 2013 11:41:33 AM
Having read Lawrence Krauss's books "Atom" and "Something from Nothing" I saw no evidence of his "dumping on the humanities", but a lot of evidence of a brilliant mind at work.
Posted by: Ted | Feb 14, 2013 12:24:04 PM
The only tantalizing thing about this trailer is the mention of Cormac McCarthy as one of the many people appearing in it. That makes it notable. Please God let it be more than a sound bite from the man. (Only kidding about the God part.)
Otherwise this trailer suggests the film will offer up some pretty predictable fare. I greatly admire these two men (Krauss, Dawkins) for their achievements in science and for their ability and willingness to convey their understanding and passion in layperson's terms. What's tiresome (at times) is their stooping to somewhat low levels of discourse when they engage on the topic of religion and spirituality. A case in point is a recent lengthy discussion between Krauss and Krista Tippett, host of "On Being." On her show she'll engage some the best scientific and atheistic minds of the time, along with some of the more advanced practitioners and thinkers from the other side of the spectrum. She's adept with the full range. Again and again in their talk Krauss makes fairly juvenile remarks about the usual targets, and you can see the host trying not to groan, trying to force a patient smile etc while the discussion stalls. Maybe he simply misjudged the audience, or maybe he was fine I was just not in the mood for behaviors I associate with FOX news and talk radio. He's just not the great advocate for his own side, in my opinion, and I speak as someone very much on his side. If this film mainly just pairs these guys up against cretinous religious zealots, I'll pass and look for the Cormac McCarthy clip on youtube or something.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTfxQg7Ntk
Posted by: Tom Taj | Feb 14, 2013 4:25:08 PM
Cool, cool. Good for you, reading and enjoying it. No doubt this physicist is brilliant and we can all be glad he writes about the Universe for the layman. Without religious books and anything but the hard sciences to truly look up to as a guide to the truth(?), it is really on them to explain these things to the public.
If you're interested, there was some back-n-forth going on a ways back between the author and philosophers you can google or hear 'bout on Philosophy Talk and Rationally Speaking podcasts. Also brought up in The Stone blog at NYT. Fun stuff.
Posted by: flowers rainbows | Feb 14, 2013 5:29:09 PM
but a lot of evidence of a brilliant mind at work.
A brilliant mind is a liability among our religious friends.
Science is Satan!
We have the apologists, like Armstrong, but eventually they may realize it is not really about personal enlightenment.
The planet could care less.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Feb 14, 2013 10:15:11 PM
"I couldn't tear myself
away from 3 Quarks Daily, to the point of neglecting my work. Congratulations on
this superb site."—Steven
Pinker, Johnstone Professor of Psychology, Harvard University.
"I have placed 3 Quarks Daily at the head of my list of web bookmarks."—Richard
Dawkins, Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.
"Just wanted you to know I’m one of many who reads and enjoys 3 Quarks....almost daily."—David Byrne, musician, former lead-singer of the Talking Heads, artist, intellectual.
Comments
"Un-believing" is a luxury item. I mean, how do you ask a man sitting near footsteps of Baadshahi Masjid, Lahore eking out merely five rupees for a shoeshine, to stop believing. Or ask his wife and diaper-less kids waiting all day for his return to stop believing. They will believe in anything that is beyond his reach. And I say why not, this belief, daily misery and few bites of food are the only things keeping their stomachs full at night so they can wake up at the crack of dawn the next morning. Belief is their lifeline. Scientific arguments from people like them will never move me, they lack empathy most importantly, and after all "its" a belief not some convenient little sientific corollary, I personally will go insane without it.
Posted by: Tehseen | Feb 14, 2013 11:12:56 AM
Tehseen--
You make good points, and I'm with you that religion is an escape from a groundless and often bewildering situation, and people more grounded and privileged should not demean most of struggling humanity.
But these religious beliefs promote ignorance, poverty, and are used by elites for control and keeping the income and political inequality that the privileged enjoy.
It is more complicated than meets the eye.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Feb 14, 2013 11:34:02 AM
krAuSS is funny. In addition to sh*tting on anti-science right-wingers (a good thing No Doubt)and religion he also knows enough physics to dump on the humanities, philosophy, etc., thus giving these areas of human inquiry and meaning some publicity and showing why people don't sometimes like scientists. America does love obnoxious a-holes, so he's a good media persona to challenge Fox News types.
Posted by: flowers rainbows | Feb 14, 2013 11:41:33 AM
Having read Lawrence Krauss's books "Atom" and "Something from Nothing" I saw no evidence of his "dumping on the humanities", but a lot of evidence of a brilliant mind at work.
Posted by: Ted | Feb 14, 2013 12:24:04 PM
The only tantalizing thing about this trailer is the mention of Cormac McCarthy as one of the many people appearing in it. That makes it notable. Please God let it be more than a sound bite from the man. (Only kidding about the God part.)
Otherwise this trailer suggests the film will offer up some pretty predictable fare. I greatly admire these two men (Krauss, Dawkins) for their achievements in science and for their ability and willingness to convey their understanding and passion in layperson's terms. What's tiresome (at times) is their stooping to somewhat low levels of discourse when they engage on the topic of religion and spirituality. A case in point is a recent lengthy discussion between Krauss and Krista Tippett, host of "On Being." On her show she'll engage some the best scientific and atheistic minds of the time, along with some of the more advanced practitioners and thinkers from the other side of the spectrum. She's adept with the full range. Again and again in their talk Krauss makes fairly juvenile remarks about the usual targets, and you can see the host trying not to groan, trying to force a patient smile etc while the discussion stalls. Maybe he simply misjudged the audience, or maybe he was fine I was just not in the mood for behaviors I associate with FOX news and talk radio. He's just not the great advocate for his own side, in my opinion, and I speak as someone very much on his side. If this film mainly just pairs these guys up against cretinous religious zealots, I'll pass and look for the Cormac McCarthy clip on youtube or something.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTfxQg7Ntk
Posted by: Tom Taj | Feb 14, 2013 4:25:08 PM
Cool, cool. Good for you, reading and enjoying it. No doubt this physicist is brilliant and we can all be glad he writes about the Universe for the layman. Without religious books and anything but the hard sciences to truly look up to as a guide to the truth(?), it is really on them to explain these things to the public.
If you're interested, there was some back-n-forth going on a ways back between the author and philosophers you can google or hear 'bout on Philosophy Talk and Rationally Speaking podcasts. Also brought up in The Stone blog at NYT. Fun stuff.
Posted by: flowers rainbows | Feb 14, 2013 5:29:09 PM
but a lot of evidence of a brilliant mind at work.
A brilliant mind is a liability among our religious friends.
Science is Satan!
We have the apologists, like Armstrong, but eventually they may realize it is not really about personal enlightenment.
The planet could care less.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Feb 14, 2013 10:15:11 PM
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