December 31, 2012
The state withers away in Pakistan
by Omar Ali
3 days ago the Pakistani Taliban raided an outpost of the levies, a paramilitary force recruited primarily from the Afridi tribesmen of the Khyber agency. Poorly equipped, poorly paid and left to stand on the frontlines of the war against the Taliban with little or no backup from the army, the levies lost 3 men and another 23 were captured. The next day the “local administration” spent a busy day contacting “tribal elders” to negotiate with the Taliban for the release of those poor men. But the talks failed and
the captives were executed and their bodies dumped a couple of miles outside the city. This is not the first time the local Taliban have captured levies or other paramilitary forces and it is not the first time they have executed them.
On the same day, a related anti-Shia militant group blew up three buses carrying Shia pilgrims to Iran.
20 or so people were killed. Dozens more injured. Again, this is not the first time such an act was commited. In fact scores of other pilgrims have lost their lives on that very road in the last few years and more will probably do so in the months and years to come.
There are literally dozens of such videos. In most of them the Taliban make speeches about the fact that these soldiers are working for the apostate Pakistani regime alongside the US and other infidel powers, and anyone who works for that regime will face the same fate. In the case of Shias the message is even simpler: they are heretics and they must all die. But the Taliban are not the only people doing the killing. There are several videos of Pakistani soldiers executing Taliban prisoners or beating them up. There are also videos of children killed by Pakistani or American bombing. There is a video somewhere of American soldiers urinating on dead bodies. Not as gruesome as some of the work done by Taliban videographers, but as Hamid Gul has repeatedly pointed out, the Americans are pussies.
War is hell. We know that. But what struck me about these news items was this: in both cases (the attack on Peshawar and the attacks in Mastung) the “local authorities” generally know where to find the attackers (they frequently negotiate with them, they send “elders” out to talk to them, the attackers don’t even hide their faces in most videos, large numbers of armed men don’t just drop in from the moon and disappear back into the mother ship, etc.). And these are certainly not the first such attacks, so the “authorities” have had more than enough time to find out that something is rotten a few miles from their provincial capital. Yet there is remarkably little response. The local deputy commissioner or political agent is not held responsible, nor do the various other local “law enforcement” mechanisms swing into action as if something terrible has happened. The army, armed with thousands of tanks and artillery pieces, stationed in tens of thousands in the same cities, proud of being the “seventh nuclear power in the world”, does not swing into action. Prime ministers and Presidents don’t fly in to take charge of the situation.
On the contrary, there is remarkable vagueness and confusion about what is happening and who is responsible for dealing with it. The provincial government (an elected regime that has lost hundreds of party workers to the Taliban, most recently the senior provincial minister) is not asked why they don’t do something because it is widely understood that they are not in charge and it’s not up to them to “do something”. The civil bureaucracy and police have no jurisdiction or else wriggle out with vague insinuations that it’s all in the army’s domain. The army, recipient of billions in US aid for “anti-terrorism efforts” and the institution that is de facto (if not de jure) responsible for tackling these killers is extremely vague about their identity. In Baluchistan they pretend to have simply washed their hands of the whole matter. In KP (Peshawar) they say they are fighting “an amorphous enemy”, which presumably means they are off the hook.

There may be many reasons why the Pakistani army is so reluctant to fight the Pakistani Taliban. Lack of capacity is sometimes cited. Others believe it is complicity, not inability, which prevents any action. But this is not a post focused on why the army does or does not fight its former blue-eyed boys in the Jihadist movement. My point today is simpler: There is a state called Pakistan. It exists (whether it was a good idea or not is another story; you can see my views on that). It has a structure. That structure; corrupt, inefficient, “unequal, sexist, racist, neo-imperialist”, whatever, can fall apart. If it falls apart, you will have anarchy and civil war. Neither is a pleasant experience. And once that happens, it can take decades to settle on new arrangements. What follows in the interim is usually extremely unpleasant. Humpty Dumpty is not put together again with kid gloves. Ask Chinese people who lived between 1911 and 1976 for details.
"Strategic depth" and the "leveraging of asymmetrical assets to support national policy priorities" is National Defense University level stuff. The neo-liberal world order and its disastrous consequences are arguments for which you need a university degree (and no, the “neoliberal world order” does not necessarily and automatically demand civil war and anarchy). But no state, not Leninist Russia, not Maoist China, not George Washington’s America, not the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, tolerated, AT ALL, the existence of free-lance bands of armed men. The illiterate (but capable) Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia understood this. Modern India, which is very much a work in progress and is as incompetent and corrupt a regime as any in Pakistan, seems to understand this. EVERYONE seems to understand, it but the Pakistani army high command does not? Don’t they teach this in National Defense University before they teach all about DIMEFIL and its importance in Pakistani Afghan policy?
I will digress here with a few words for my Westernized Pakistani Leftist friends (everyone else can jump ahead). Yes, yes, we all hate the neo-liberal new world order. But dear well-meaning darling souls, if the shit hits the fan in Pakistan, it won’t be happening in some other country where we can cheer the revolution and its transformation of “power relations” while bemoaning its inevitable but understandable “excesses”. We are talking about this happening in Pakistan itself. We still have friends and family there. Mummy and Daddy’s little house in Model Town, Uncle Jimmy’s pleasant little farmhouse in Bani Gala. Do keep in mind, they are also IN Pakistan.
Let me try and simplify this argument (all this directed at my Westernized elite liberal friends only):
1. All modern states are evil. All war is evil. All power is evil.
2. Colonial powers are evil. Western colonial powers were especially evil (if you don’t wish to apply the term “colonial” to the Russian or the Arab empire, I will accept that too). And US neo-colonialism is very very very especially evil.
3. We hate this evil way of organizing human society and would love to transcend it. We must transcend it. The sooner, the better.
4. But until we do so, or until someone else does so (lets be humble enough to recognize that if comrade Mao and comrade Lenin couldn’t do it with ruthless armed revolutionaries at their disposal, we are not likely to do it with a keyboard), there are a few elementary features that every state has to aim for, even if it does not immediately achieve them. If state A is unable to implement them in area X, then state B must do so very quickly after pushing out state A. Elementary stuff. The suppression of mob violence and non-state militias. Don’t do that and you have chaos and/or civil war and revolution on your hands.
5. It is hard to find an example of in which the sequence of chaos/civil-war/revolution led directly to a better life for the great mass of the people alive when the chaos set in.
6. It is especially important not to try this experiment in Pakistan. We are from Pakistan. What exists is bad, but it’s not hopeless. It can be improved. Break it and you will have a mess on your hands that is guaranteed to be worse than what exists today.
OK, back to the main point. I am not saying Pakistan’s ruling elite is already done for. They will probably act against these groups at some point after having made the job extra hard for themselves. And though the confrontation will be bloody and prolonged, the state will probably prevail in the end. Modern states are very resilient and are hard to defeat by non-state actors (another more powerful state chipping in, as in East Pakistan in 1971, is a different matter). Cuba comes to mind as an exception, but counter examples are far more numerous.
In fact there are rumors that the army may have struck a new deal with the US that involves US approval for an army-backed “caretaker” regime. Some new move is said to be afoot with Allama Tahir ul Qadri providing “moderate Muslim” cover, with the MQM and anyone else over whom the army (or, in this case, the London police) has enough leverage, lining up to “demand” a new caretaker regime. But the whole exercise smells too much of past interventions and lacks even the manufactured legitimacy that attended those attempts at nation building. I am not hopeful that any new “government of all talents”, especially one based on transparently false premises like the Tahir-ul-Qadri/MQM revolutionary wave, will solve our ideological conundrum. We all understand that it breaks GHQs heart to fight against the very forces they thought would lead them to conquests from Khorasan to Kashmir. And yes, it is difficult for many Pakistanis to accept that people sincerely committed to Islam and Islamic supremacy are now to be ruthlessly crushed by the country that prides itself as the citadel of Islam. But mistakes were made and karma is a bitch. Someone somewhere will have to bite the bullet. The point is that it will be no easier to do that with a new caretaker regime than it is with the (admittedly incompetent) Zardari regime. Because the principal obstacle to taking decisive action is not corruption or mechanistic institutional weaknesses. Corrupt and incompetent police forces and armies can still defeat major rebellions (with a little help from their friends. See Taiping rebellion in China). What is lacking here is will; it seems it’s very painful for GHQ to muster the will to act against Islam and the “ideology of Pakistan”. But as noted above, things have become so bad, they have become clear. Pakistan’s ruling elite can either relinquish control in large areas or clear those areas. Controlled burn and other holding strategies that accept such a level of violence against state forces may have been a way to have our American aid and eat our jihadi cake too, but that whole strategy has now become non-viable. Negotiations and “peaceful solution” are beautiful ideals, but the other side is armed and ready to kill. No state can permit such force to remain active within its domain and appear not to care. To do so it to undermine the viability of the state itself. The viability of the Pakistani state may be just a theoretical problem for the Guardian newspaper, but its life and death for the Pakistani elite... OUR elite. If things fall apart, they will not be easy to put together again.
The choices are simple. The Pakistani state can permanently abandon large areas to armed forces that refuse to recognize its authority (and will then face the prospect of fighting these forces wherever the new border is drawn, since their ambitions are vast). Or it can re-establish control. Everything else comes after this first elementary choice is made. Its time to choose.
Finally, a few words for friends who think a post-Pakistan solution would be best. How do you plan to get there? Between what exists now and what may exist after Pakistan is no more, lie civil war and massive disorder. And organized forces will have to fight it out in that transition. Which forces do you imagine doing that work, and why do you expect them to do it to your liking?
PS: On an unrelated note, I notice that Zizek has called out the poco crowd:
Also, I really hate all of this politically correct, cultural studies bullshit. If you mention the phrase “postcolonialism,” I say, “Fuck it!” Postcolonialism is the invention of some rich guys from India who saw that they could make a good career in top Western universities by playing on the guilt of white liberals.
There is likely to be an urge among the more intelligent and established postcolonial types to let the matter go (as with states, there are elementary first principles in academic disputes and number one is the "mutual bullshit protection clause"). But in this realm I am with the revolutionaries. Don’t worry about collateral damage and self-inflicted wounds. Ignore the business about airing dirty laundry in public. Let Zizek have it with all keyboards blazing. I urge my "postcolonial-culture studies" brethren (and sisteren) to please respond to Zizek. Harshly.
“There are no beautiful surfaces without a terrible depth.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
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PS: thanks to Myra Macdonald, whose post inspired this one over the weekend.
Posted by omar at 12:05 AM | Permalink























Comments
I for one, welcome our new steel minded allies at 3QD in the war to rid Pakistan of it's deranged Islamist menace.
We begin our harvest of souls with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and move leftwards till we hit the Jamat-e-Islami. Then we about face right and plow through till the Jihadis are no more.
I am deadly serious.
Human rights can go fuck themselves if you're an Islamist or a Jihadi in Pakistan.
Posted by: TLW | Dec 31, 2012 8:57:26 AM
Lacks any analysis of past, present and future geopolitical interests in the situation in Pakistan. Hope you can do that in future. But thanks for not bringing up Jinnah.
As for post-colonialism, there never was one. In fact colonialism has never been at its strongest with the colonial powers instead of fighting each other banded together after WWII. Give it a thought.
Posted by: Raza Husain | Dec 31, 2012 10:58:49 AM
Raza bhai, Jinnah is in the hyperlinks.
And about point two, thought has been given. And I dont find that colonialism has become stronger. Colonialism was amazingly strong a 100 years ago. Modern capitalism has indeed become stronger, but its not the same thing.
Baqi aap ki marzi.
Posted by: omar | Dec 31, 2012 11:11:30 AM
I see that Dr. Omar Ali is back to his usual tricks of presenting yet another article about "Pakistan going to hell".
Well, as a person who actually LIVES in Pakistan and not in Wisconsin, let me tell you that things are nowhere near as bad as Dr. Ali presents them.
Pakistan is a vibrant country of 180 million people and the state is not "withering away". Yes, we need to fight the Taliban (no reasonable person is arguing otherwise), but Dr. Ali's anti-Pakistan bias comes through loud and clear in everything he writes about my country. Has he ever said anything positive about Pakistan? Not that I can recall.
Posted by: Kabir | Dec 31, 2012 11:36:40 AM
Actually, this site is obsessed with Pakistan. Why is that?
Are English-speaking readers in North America/Europe really so interested in Pakistan that they need to see articles about the place every single day?
I like this site, but I think a moratorium on Pakistan-related articles for the year 2013 would be a real improvement.
Posted by: Angling Saxon | Dec 31, 2012 11:43:40 AM
Thank You 3QD for really getting my blood pressure boiling on this
last day of 2012. All these acts of terrorism are funded and sponsored by Wahabistan, ie Saudi
Arabia.
Posted by: Nasreen R | Dec 31, 2012 12:34:47 PM
Angling-
Human rights collapses are worthy of note everywhere. The death of civility, empathy, compassion, love —everything that makes life livable, deserves the vigilant attention of us all.
What's happening in Pakistan or Africa or the USA —anything that diminishes the dignity of humanity regardless of cause... —well, to quote Arthur Miller's Linda Loman, "attention must be paid."
Posted by: Jim | Dec 31, 2012 1:12:09 PM
Jim-
Non sequitur. Livable things are lacking all over the place, not just in Pakistan. Why do the owners/administrators of this site think that country is so central to what people coming to this site want to read?
The comparative inattention to places not named Pakistan is glaring. I had to do a double-take and screw up my eyes to ensure I wasn't hallucinating when I saw the post on Louis Riel!
Posted by: Angling Saxon | Dec 31, 2012 2:00:35 PM
Angling--
Why do you like this site?
Posted by: Jim | Dec 31, 2012 2:14:13 PM
Why Pakistan is important to the world ,especially to the Paki/Americans ? World is now a global body and a pain in one limb or its falling away affects the whole body . Pakistan did totter and broke into two with Indian , Russian and believe it or not American help . Now it is an integrated strategically central part of Central ,South Asia Near East and Middle East . Its fall /disintegration/debris will take India ,Bangladesh and Srilanka with it .What if somebody in half million strong Pakistan army decides to use some nuclear bombs !
Posted by: Nadir Ali | Dec 31, 2012 3:36:21 PM
I believe several of the editors of this site are of Pakistani extraction and therefore very understandably have an interest in the region. I also believe the editors have made very clear in various places that any readers who don't like the choices of the editors (which they incidentally contribute in their own time and offer for free), are at perfect liberty to go elsewhere.
Posted by: big joe | Dec 31, 2012 4:40:09 PM
Perhaps the editors of the site are too polite to respond to Angling Saxon's odd complaint. The editors select the content based on their interests and there is an enthusiastic readership for it. I am confused why Saxon believes that just because he keeps coming back to the site the content should somehow become more relevant to him. Here's a suggestion: give a try to skipping articles that are not of interest.
Posted by: Fawad | Dec 31, 2012 4:57:21 PM
I come here for quandry and this site delivers consistently. Pat answers are all over the web. The posts here are always of interest at some level.
Posted by: Erich | Dec 31, 2012 8:18:26 PM
Kabir Saheb: Pay a visit to the 22 Levies families of Dara Adam Khel or 19 Shia Hazara families killed in Mastung.
Get back to your posh 1000yrds house, with Gas heater on, enjoying late night tea or drink and type on you keyboard how Pak isn't falling apart.
Posted by: @RKzoy | Jan 1, 2013 4:38:22 AM
Kabir might like this too
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/world/asia/drone-war-in-pakistan-spurs-militants-to-deadly-reprisals.html?hp&_r=0
Posted by: @RKzoy | Jan 1, 2013 4:43:02 AM
Pakistan remains "vibrant" but the vibrations are different closer to central Punjab and very different in areas where the patriotic peace loving youth now hold sway (that patriotic peace loving term comes from Lt. General Safdar, then commander of the Pakistani army in Peshawar, speaking of Baitullah Mehsud, commander of the pakistani taliban): http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01/01/gunmen-kill-5-teachers-2-others-in-ambush-in-pakistan/
Posted by: omar | Jan 1, 2013 10:19:04 AM
its not the terrorism that is the point of my post btw. As kabir bhai points out, other countries have terrorism too. Its the unwillingness to respond clearly in terms of narrative. The focus is on "we must get rid of feudal politics, fake democracy, corruption"..anything but fight the terrorists. With them:, we have to wait for the right time. We cannot be hasty. We must get our own house in order first. There is no military solution. Lets not close the door to peace. etc. etc. (I speak here of the narrative from state organs and their supporters, not the narrative from the elite Left, which is necessarily very different in ALL countries but has little impact on what is actually being done by most people)
This attitude of the state seems natural within the paknationalist bubble. But if you step outside it you will appreciate how strikingly different it is from the world norm. Whether they can control it or not, NO state, not India, not Thailand, not Saudi Arabia, not Russia..no one regards this sort of thing as nonchalantly as the Paknationalist elite does. The enemy has no clear name, no clear identity. There is no propaganda line that identifies them as unambiguously evil and us as the forces of law and order (true or not is not my point right now)... And thats because of ideology. The narrative the deep state has constructed about Pakistan does not easily square with fighting an Islamist Jihadist menace that claims to have the same broad aims (true islamic state,true independence, strength, kashmir, transnational Islamist solidarity) as the ruling elite (again, true or not is not my point, we are talking about the narrative).
Its a very fundamental confusion. And it is slowly killing the place.
see, for example, this:http://www.qissa-khwani.com/2013/01/the-village-where-no-children-play.html and try to imagine how any other state would respond to such people and how the Pakistani state has responded.
Posted by: omar | Jan 1, 2013 11:13:49 AM
Sorry, sorry,
I didn't read any of the followup comments cause I was so irritated with Angling's original one.
When I first started checking out 3QD on a regular basis I too was confused about all the Pakistan stuff. But I kept my mouth shut because it wasn't my website. Over time I learned to appreciate the complexities and intricacies of that remarkable country, and it's implications for the wider world. There really is no place quite like it, and it serves as a suitable microcosm of the the 'Global South' and also the 'Muslim World'. In fact, there are so many competing narratives, and Pakistan is such a cultural crossroads with such a unique history, that it's mere existence as a state begs further inquiry. What IS Pakistan?
Wikipedia can't really tell you.
Anyways, that's my dumbass Californian interpretation. Apologies if I have caused any offense for being too reductive and idiotic about what is probably very many readers of this site's homeland.
tl;dr Dude, it ain't your website. I like learning about a country I wouldn't have known much about otherwise.
P.S. Super ballsy post Omar Ali. Fun to watch people smarter than me make concrete arguments.
Posted by: DrunktankDan | Jan 1, 2013 6:40:38 PM
I don't share your optimism, Omar, but otherwise it's a good article, telling us things we can't be told too often. Pakistan is in a strange state of paralysis, for which I know no historical parallel. The Kabirs are the ones who must be made to see, but they won't, until someone actually puts a bullet in their heads. To them, "Pakistan is fine" is a matter of ideology, of faith, against all contrary evidence. No country has seen so great a triumph of ideology over empiricism.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 1, 2013 8:51:32 PM
Well, I take that last sentence back. North Korea and Pakistan are twins in this respect.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 2, 2013 12:51:20 AM
Ken Bryant,
Please don't try to psychoanalyze me--you're frankly NOT very good at at it and your attempts are rather pathetic.
I do not hold "Pakistan is fine" as a matter of faith. My gripe is with people like Dr. Ali who are contributing to the currently fashionable narrative that "Pakistan is going to hell". It is NOT going to hell. We have our problems--I admit we need to fight the TTP. BUT we will do this at an appropriate time as decided by our Army and our politicians, not by outsiders.
I reject reductive views about my country from non-Pakistanis who seem to get a thrill about how this "terrible Muslim country is becoming more and more terrible". This narrative is a distortion and propaganda.
There are 180 million people in Pakistan and most of them are just like you, going about their daily lives. Some are "Islamists", others are "seculars", most are Muslims who believe in their Islam but would never kill someone for belonging to a different sect....
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 2, 2013 1:02:56 AM
Of course most are that way. The point is: those few who are vicious bigoted murderers are able to get away with anything always. Pakistan's not a normal country, with police, laws that get enforced, criminal courts that convict murderers. It's a pathological pretend-country, and it's on its way down really really fast. Ghalib had it right: mere tameer mein muzmir hai ik soorat khraabi ki / hayula barq-e-khimran ka hai, khoon-e-garm dahqaan kaa
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 2, 2013 1:28:16 AM
And here's a prediction for you, Kabir: twelve months from now you will have abandoned all your illusions.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 2, 2013 1:33:11 AM
Pakistan is a "pretend country"?!
I'm sorry, but that is just a hugely offensive statement.
We get it Ken, you don't like Pakistan. BUT we are very much a real country. We have a government, an Army, heck even nuclear weapons! So How can you say that Pakistan is a "pretend country"! That just sounds very bigoted.
Yes, there is a law and order problem in Pakistan. Yes, the state is not quite willing to take on the TTP. But things are not as dire as you and other people seem to make them out to be.
And frankly your predictions are worth about as much as your psychoanalysis-- not damn much.
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 2, 2013 4:51:21 AM
Just a question for you then Kabir....
When will be 'the right time' for the state to take down these ignorant, cold blooded religiously motivated murderers of the innocent and haters of women? When would be appropriate?
Could it be that some of their beliefs are uncomfortably 'widely held'....? How would I fare as a peaceful atheist strolling the hills of Pak's backcountry proclaiming everyone's right to believe as they wish and extolling the virtues of an educated female populace? How long would I last in this country that you proclaim to be going so swimmingly? When DO things become 'dire', to use your words? I'm intrigued...
Posted by: MattInOz | Jan 2, 2013 7:52:23 AM
Kabir ji, Here was my prediction about Pakistan in 2012:
My own prediction in 2012: More of the same. I agree with comrade Zee that the elite will hold on with “mutually assured corruption”. I think Baluchistan will remain a festering wound but it will not reach Bangladesh or Kashmir level of violence. I think some of the Jihadist militias in FATA will continue to fight the state but outside of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa the level of violence will be tolerable. And I think Imran Khan will not be able to solve corruption in 19 days or terrorism in 90 days. In fact, I think he won’t even be able to come into power. I think the US will gradually lessen its footprint in the region and will try to hand over a lot of the local imperialist duties to China, but the Chinese will prove too smart to take up the job. Through all this, economic growth and rapid cultural change will continue in Pakistan and will even accelerate. The army’s hold on the country will weaken over time. Their dream of a “Chinese model authoritarian regime with Islamic characteristics” will remain unfulfilled. Nothing will look satisfactory to anyone, but the state will not collapse and there will be no wider war. In short, I don’t think Pakistan is about to collapse, but I don’t think it is about to undergo some magical transformation under the wise leadership of Kiyani or Imran Khan either. And I don’t think it’s going to see an “Islamic revolution” because there is no there there. The Islamists themselves have no workable plan for any such revolution. They are mouthing empty slogans and at some level most people know this.
The long term future of Pakistan is “Indianization”. Not in the sense of “Indian cultural invasion” or “Indian hegemony”, but in the simple literal sense of “becoming more like India”. Obviously not exactly like India, but close enough for government work; a corruption-ridden, imperfect third world democracy with an expanding capitalist economy and many internal divisions and stresses and the additional burden of Islamic fantasizing. And I think there is little chance of developing a unique indigenous socialist/islamist/vegetarian short-cut past all these problems, much to the dismay of the Arundhati Roys and Tariq Alis, not to speak of Hindutvadis and Islamists. Pakistan will not show the world some new path to the future. It will be a “normal” South Asian country, trying to stabilize a democratic model derived from British Indian roots while working out a modus vivendi between its ancient cultures, its “Islamic” ideals and the modern world. The economy has now become too large for even the narrow elite to be dominated by imperial mercenary duties or scams related to the same. In that sense, things will be a little better. It’s not a perfect outcome, but we do not live in a perfect world.
And this was my personal opinion in 2009: The state is stronger than many people think. But it is grossly incompetent and the elite itself is split and infiltrated by jihadi sympathizers. It won’t collapse soon, but all problems will continue to get worse for the foreseeable future. A big drone offensive is coming and there will be much secondary fighting in Pakistan. But there is at least a 50-50 chance that Jihadistan will NOT be able to expand into the Punjab and Sindh (though much terrorism will surely happen). The army will be gradually purged of jihadis and will one day come around to being a serious anti-jihadi force, but it won’t be easy and it may not happen. If the army continues to have jihadi sympathies, then all bets are off and many horrendous scenarios are imaginable. The US embassy presumably knows more than we do. On the other hand, their declassified documents make it clear that they are incredibly naïve and racist in their assumptions and tend to regard the people they have colonized as mildly retarded children; so there is a good chance they don’t know batshit about what is going on, but are able to present impressive looking PowerPoints about three cups of tea with Kiyani and the other brown children who inhabit the world outside the green zone.
And I have repeatedly said that I think the current Pakistan (which is obviously NOT the Pakistan Jinnahbhoy created in 1947, that one ended in 1971) is a geographically and economically viable entity, artificially thrown together like many (most?) post-colonial states but still viable (also like most postocolonial states).
But I will admit (and the above article is an experssion of that) that I have become a little bit more pessimistic than I was in early 2012. I still think the elite will eventually, in their own incompetent and indiscriminate and crude fashion, start shooting Taliban (as eloquently described by TLW in comment number one on this post) but I think we could have done it better and easier if we did it earlier. I think the resistance to switching ideologies is deeper than I thought (i cite extenuating circumstances: as someone who does not believe in the TNT and related paknationalist myths, I probably had insufficient grasp of how seriously some people take that crap) and that means that the course correction will be more delayed, more confused and therefore more unnecessarily violent and destructive, than it should have been.
But even so, i still agree with you that Pakistan will survive. But the strength of my belief has shifted slightly towards "may not make it in the end".
Thats a long comment, but I do hope you will stop claiming that I WANT it to fail. I actually want it to survive. I would prefer it does so with less violence and without continuing its 65 year hate-fest with India. But the world is what it is. We rarely get all we want.
Posted by: omar | Jan 2, 2013 10:11:03 AM
MattinOZ,
Obviously, it would not be a good idea to proclaim your atheism in FATA. Why can't you keep your beliefs, whatever they are, to yourself and respect that Pakistan is an Islamic country? Pakistanis take their religion very seriously, which is their right. You cannot apply your beliefs and expect the Pakistani people to think the way you think. If you keep your beliefs to yourself and go about your business, like the rest of us, you'll be fine.
Omar, You clearly do not like Pakistan. We all get that. You have an obsessive need to create a "Pakistan is going to hell" narrative--a narrative that is very fashionable these days. Well done!
As for 65 year "hatefest" with India-- Is Bharat Mata pure? Have they not contributed to the "hatefest" as you describe it?
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 2, 2013 11:51:35 AM
kabir ji, the hate-fest is not entirely one sided. But it was the North Indian Muslim elite that asked for partition, not the Congress (HIndu extremists are another story. e.g.Savarkar invented the term "two nation theory" but Savarkar is NOT as central to modern India as Jinnahbhoy is to Pakistan....India is officially (not yet ideally) secular, Pakistan officially enshrines the hatefest into its founding myths).
but its certainly not one-sided. There is a lot of hate in India too. My point is that jinnahbhoy and his followers made a bad situation worse rather than better. The hate (until now) is not officially or formally the basis of the Indian state. What is in the hearts of men may be different, what many of them actually do is usually different, but civilization, at a minimum, has to start with a noble lie. You have to start there before there is any chance of getting to changing hearts and becoming truly Kumbaya. Starting with bigotry and division is not a step forward.
Still, whats done is done. I dont think borders (at least on the eastern end of Pakistan) are going to change in the next generation or two. The West is where our current problems lie.
Posted by: omar | Jan 2, 2013 12:37:14 PM
Kabir, what a prediction is worth is something we never know for sure until it either comes true, or doesn't. I'm an empiricist; when my predictions fail, I try to correct my assumptions. How about you?
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 2, 2013 3:45:34 PM
Kabir,
You say, "Obviously, it would not be a good idea to proclaim your atheism in FATA..." My point exactly. When a country is strong and confident in itself and it's contribution to a global community, then, you will find that one can 'obviously' say whatever one wants without fear of retribution.
The very fact that you say Pak is an 'Islamic country' says it all. What is an Islamic country and who decides that's what it'll be? You? You'd be surprised at the beliefs held by some of your conntry's leading thinkers (but that they felt free to express them)... Your view is very naive. Of course the world will be far better off once nations and peoples rid themselves of the childish beliefs in gods and prophets and such nonsense but that's not likely to happen in a hurry and least likely to transpire in somewhere like Pakistan when the army and elite won't even uphold the most basic of human rights. Pak has a LONG way to go and I think is quite accurately described by Omar's piece.
Posted by: MattInOz | Jan 2, 2013 7:02:06 PM
Omar,
It was the "North Indian Muslim elite that asked for Partition".
Partition occurred because Congress and the League could not compromise on how the Muslim minority was to be protected. Nor could they compromise on this issue of a highly centralized state or provincial autonomy. Congress decided that Partition was the better alternative to provincial autonomy. Please remember that Jinnah accepted the Cabinet Mission Plan and it was Nehru who reneged on it. Anyway, Partition is history, it has nothing to do with Pakistan's current problems.
As for whether Partition made things worse or better-- that's a couterfactual. Who could have known in 1947 what the Indian Constitution would look like in 1950? How could Indian Muslims have been sure their fears of "Hindu Raj" were unfounded? The loss of lives on both sides was tragic. The breakup of the composite culture was tragic. But there is nothing inherently wrong with the creation of Pakistan.
MattinOZ-- We get it. You don't like Islam. You think belief in "gods and prophets" is nonsense. But to Muslims, belief in Allah and in the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the very core of our identity. So why can't you respect that?
You can be an atheist in Pakistan. You should just refrain from proclaiming that belief as it goes against the principles held dear by the vast majority of the population. What do you gain from shouting "There is no god", other than making a point? Do you really need to make that point?
Anyway, I'm done arguing with you people. You hate Pakistan and you'll hate it forever, no matter what I say. Good luck to you.
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 3, 2013 12:43:37 AM
MattinOz,
You say, "who decides if a country is Islamic"?
How about the people, through their representatives? Pakistan is an Islamic country because the vast majority of the populace wants it that way. If they didn't, they would vote in parties that sponsor legislation to make Pakistan a secular state.
Or do you only respect democracy when it gives you the results you like?
The liberal seculars are a small minority in Pakistan and they need to either accept the laws of the Pakistani state (which are mostly based on the British law code given to us in colonial times) or they need to emigrate abroad--as many have done--where they can be as "secular" as they like. Religion has been and will continue to be important in Pakistan for the forseeable future and that's just the way it is. Even the PPP (the most secular party) no longer talks about amending the Blasphemy Law--they know that that's an issue that is better left alone. Politicians are, if nothing else, pragmatic.
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 3, 2013 12:52:32 AM
Kabir,
You have it exactly wrong - I don't dislike Islam anymore than I dislike Egyptian Pharaohs. And I have absolutely nothing against you personally, I would love to chat with you, in Pakistan, over a tea or three and discuss many things....
But you can't just say Pak is an Islamic country and that's the end if it. Pak is a country with many Islamists, but that's a different thing..
Just like here in Australia in the 1930s when racism was rampant and governmental policy bigoted, that still wouldn't give me the right to say 'Aust is a white country' and that's that! "If you're not caucasian then either keep quiet, bleach you skin or leave!" Thats patently absurd. The population was and is dynamic and changing and thankfully we're far more multicultural and secular today. Pak will change over time too but it will change slowest if it maintains it is nothing more or less than its Islamism.
Posted by: MattInOz | Jan 3, 2013 1:56:17 AM
Matt,
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.
Pakistan is named "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan". Even the non-Islamists (the vast majority of the population) are happy with Pakistan being an "Islamic Republic" (whatever that actually means in practice). There is a very small minority that wants a secular state, and that movement is not going to get any traction anytime soon.
The debate about whether Pakistan was intended to be an Islamic state or a Muslim-majority state run on basically secular lines goes back to the founding of the country. Historians can tell you what Jinnah wanted (A Muslim-majority state but not a theocracy). But Jinnah died in 1948 and what he wanted or not is now largely irrelevant.
What kind of state Pakistan should be is a question that should be left to the people of Pakistan. As an Australian, you're not really a stakeholder, and no Pakistani is obliged to take your views seriously. If the majority of Pakistan's population wants an Islamic Republic than that is their right and that right should be respected. Our internal arrangements are our own issue.
This doesn't mean that everything is hunky-dory. I have already said above that we need to fight the Taliban. We also need to improve law and order. But let's let Pakistanis decide how they want to run their country, please.
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 3, 2013 4:05:49 AM
The religion of peace is at it again.
Posted by: Louis | Jan 3, 2013 10:12:25 AM
@Louis
Yes, indeed...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-03/pakistan-shuts-mobile-phone-services-on-shiite-muslim-gathering.html
Posted by: Ivan | Jan 3, 2013 12:57:04 PM
If you can contain the Taliban within your borders, I'm sure the world will allow you to decide how to do it. But if Pakistan decides it wants to go on supporting groups that attack outside Pakistan's borders, that's no longer just your business; you aren't going to be allowed to continue in that direction. The next major Haqqani attack on NATO, for example, is going to bring you attention that will drastically reduce your options. (Consider that another prediction).
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 3, 2013 8:59:01 PM
I'm sorry Ken, but where did I ever say I supported Pakistan using terrorism outside its borders?
I don't recall ever making that argument.
Posted by: Kabir | Jan 4, 2013 1:09:47 AM
No you didn't Kabir. You're right about that, but that wasn't my point. My point was your statement: "But let's let Pakistanis decide how they want to run their country, please." And what I'm saying is, It depends. If you can control your territory and not leak violence into the rest of the world, you can run your own country. But if your violence leaks out, you won't be allowed to run your own country. It will be run for you.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 4, 2013 2:56:39 AM
@Ken
Like US is running Afghanistan and Iraq for the locals...and doing a pretty good job of it too.
Posted by: 2paisay | Jan 4, 2013 12:21:44 PM
2paisay, US military intervention abroad (including so-called "good interventions") is as morally wrong (or right) as Pakistani military intervention in Kashmir or Afghanistan. But the question is "can you get away with it"?
Saying "he does it too" to the biggest bully in town is very brave, but he will pay his penalties, and you will pay yours. Are you strong enough to pay yours? (irrespective of the question of whether HE is strong enough to pay his)?
If not, its better not to try your hand at these games. And believe me, there are several countries that seem to do fine without trying to play regional power that "projects influence" using terrorists or armies across its borders.
Posted by: omar | Jan 4, 2013 1:11:55 PM
Omar nails it perfectly. My comments are not meant to argue the morality of the issue. Never would I predict X will happen because X is what morally should happen! That's not been my experience of the world. :) But there is an astronomical power imbalance between US and Pakistan, and the notion that Pakistan can make all its own decisions, without interference, is misguided. US bad? Maybe. US big and powerful? You have no idea. You really have no idea.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 4, 2013 7:56:21 PM
And yes, of course if the US runs it for you, it will do a terrible job of it. So don't give them an excuse.
Posted by: Ken Bryant | Jan 4, 2013 8:00:21 PM
The religion of peace is at it again.
Apologists for Islam have either got politically correct guilt, or are meme hosts for a nasty parasite.
Pakistan?
Quite simple.
In population overshoot, dependent on external energy sources and industrial AG, huge ecocide of the environment, with large parts of the country experiencing desertification, a illiterate population immersed in religious fundamentalism.
Did I mention run by a corrupt military?
Posted by: Dave Ranningdd | Jan 4, 2013 9:59:05 PM
"Happy" new year.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/gunmen-in-pakistan-kill-5-female-teachers-2-aid-workers/article6827911/?cmpid=rss1
Posted by: Ivan | Jan 7, 2013 1:55:02 PM
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