3quarksdaily: Edward Said on Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, from 2003

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November 16, 2012

Edward Said on Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, from 2003

Always good to have a refresher in common sense from the incomparable and desperately-missed Edward Said:

Posted by S. Abbas Raza at 09:24 AM | Permalink

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Brilliant, thank you.

Posted by: howl of minerva | Nov 16, 2012 5:59:38 PM

Though let's face it, if this were ever a question of justice and implementing international law, the whole conflict would have been resolved long ago.

As Thrasymachus sneeringly says in Plato's Republic, 'Justice is only the will of the stronger'. I can't think of many historical examples where a militarily and economically stronger power gave up a claim to something purely in the interests of justice. To put it another way, Marx says: Between equal rights force decides. He should have mentioned that between unequal rights, force also decides.

The Palestinians are in the position of the Native American Indians. Herded into ever shrinking reservations, starved and humiliated. Occasionally lashing out with primitive weapons -- meeting with brutal and grossly disproportionate responses and collective punishments. Systematically robbed and dispossessed of their land and their resources. Would it have done the Native American any good to appeal to the Colonialists' sense of justice? In fact, would anything have done them any good or were they inevitably to be victims of history?

As the Israeli military flexes its muscles for another assault on Gaza, cynically arranged for maximal impact on the upcoming Israeli election, I don't know whether it's a consolation or an additional heartbreak that history has shown us that this is the nature of humanity.

Posted by: howl of minerva | Nov 16, 2012 6:36:49 PM

It seems professor Said is raising fundamental questions of the nature of national legitimacy that almost any nation would be hard pressed to answer, not only Israel. A nation's sense of right, or “claim,” to its land is a tapestry of national historical self-narrative, diplomacy, mass demographic shifts, and victory in armed conflict. To speak of a “claim” in the abstract, divorced from these latter sorts of considerations, may be correct from the perspective of some theoretical absolute justice, but gains little traction I think in the real world of politics and history. In the real world of politics and history, might does not make right, but it certainly does make borders. It seems absurd to expect, to demand even, that a country that has endured the trials of warfare in establishing its own statehood to voluntarily relinquish its hard-fought gains because of a moral argument asserted by the losers/victims of such warfare. If Israel is supposed to submit to such arguments undermining its national legitimacy, what nations do not?

“History does not move forward. It slips sideways,” as Hussein Agha and Robert Malley put it in their great article recently in the NYRB (“This is Not a Revolution”),

Posted by: Max | Nov 16, 2012 6:54:02 PM

Nationalism seems to be the real culprit here. That it easily trumps the simple logic of Said has been pointed out by both Max and minerva. We all pretty much know this. Is there a real solution?
I have my doubts.

Posted by: James F Traynor | Nov 17, 2012 9:46:49 AM

Well said, Said! And such smart comments here! When the global community can learn to routinely stand up against unjust and unequal battles then the use of force by strategically and economically advantaged nations will eventually become futile. This may have to be done by channeling the outrage of ordinary people rather looking to our political leaders to effect change.

Posted by: Christopher Holvenstot | Nov 17, 2012 10:26:10 AM

In 1948 in Haifa the Arabs were not allowed to return; same as all the other Palestinians that flew their villages in fright and in hope that the Arab armies will crush the Jewish nation and the Israeli State. The number of the Palestinians refugees were about 400-700 thousands. They, their children, their nephews and the children of their nephews are still calling themselves refugees and even making (honest) people to ask if it was or not "ethnic cleansing" and what are their rights.
Another similar event from many others in Europe. In 1945 Czechoslovakia ethnically cleansed 2,4 millions of Sudeten Germans. The deportation of the ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia took a death toll of 15-30-270 (?) thousands that died from hunger and illness as a consequence. Massacres were committed by the Slovakian army(the Přerov massacre 71 men, 120 women and 74 children (265 Germans) :763 people were shot dead in Postoloprty by a Czechoslovak army detachment ). The private and communal property of the Germans were confiscated and NEVER returned not even now when all the properties confiscated by the Communst regime were returned to previous owners.
Where are those Germans? where are their refugee camps and their terror attacks? Where and when someone is asking for Right of Return or restitution of property? Where are the Czech that they killed? Or they didn't killed? Only started a new life?
Why we are speaking about the Deir Yassin massacre (107 victims) but nobody is speaking about Postoloprty (763 victims)?
In the same cases, Israel and Czechoslovakia, it was a war, a nation won over other nation that proved a mortal and dangerous foe and a cruel process of separation and exile was implemented. In the same cases it were the same crime: a national minority that collaborated with the enemy ( Nazi Germany/ Arab nationalists) helped him and were hostile to the state (Czechoslovakia /Israel); both not allowed to return on their lands.
I believe that the Palestinian have to look now to the future and not to the past.
The exiled Sudeten Germans are living now in honor, dignity and prosperity in the new life that they built and the Palestinians are still abject refugees, living in poverty, citizens of no country after 65 years of struggle. The Palestinians continue a futile fight loosing all the wars, choosing (some of them) the path of terror, killing women and children only because they are Jews and refusing all the peace offers (of 1948, of Camp David, of Olmert) Instead of looking to the present and the future of their children, the Palestinians are looking only to the tragedy of the past that are living each day. Maybe, by persisting in their foolish war, they will find another tragedy in the future. What today is happening in Gaza may wipe forever all the Palestinian dream to have a country and a decent life.
And Israel, by not pushing to a solution of the conflict, will share the same tragedy. Again.

Posted by: mirel | Nov 17, 2012 12:01:05 PM

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November 16, 2012

Edward Said on Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, from 2003

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