Two Quotes:
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can...Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, 1996
"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years time, neither the United nations, nor the United Sates, nobody, will be able to tear it apart." Ariel Sharon, 1973
to Winston Churchill III
Posted by: rmk28 | Jul 21, 2012 12:57:42 AM
I never comment here but, then again, I've never seen anything more purposely false than this entry. Azra, the fact that you can get away with this BS here speaks to the irrationally antisemitic state of the western elite. I'm not offended by the anti-Israel stance (that's to be expected and it's so common as to be trite), what offends me is that I know that a great deal of my fellow freaders are both stupid enough and biased enough to properly absorb the impact you intended here with your unexplained and non-nuanced maps. I'm offended by the fact that your stinky soul will likely succeed in poluting the vacuous ones of some of the stupider readers here. Bravo for the success of your cynicism.
Posted by: cfghj | Jul 21, 2012 1:09:02 AM
Much as I agree that Israeli settlements in the West Bank should be frozen (and in an eventual peace most would have to be evacuated, the others a subject of land swaps), these maps are utter nonsense. For one thing, although the white areas in the first map presumably represent Jewish privately-owned areas (and don't forget that the original mandate - circa 1920 - included what later became Jordan, i.e. over 70% of the entire mandate), the green areas were definitely not privately owned Arab land, but rather public land, i.e. owned by the government. Very little land was privately owned by any ethnic group. Even now, in Israel, the vast majority of lands are owned by the government (which inherited them from the British, who, in turn, inherited them from the Turks). In short, these maps lie and are dangerously misleading. They have no business being reproduced without clear disclaimers.
"Greater Israel .... describes a large territory, "from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates", comprising all of modern-day Israel, the Palestinian Territories, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, as well as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, Oman, Yemen, most of Turkey, and all the land east of the Nile river." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel
Most of these countries are already ruled by puppets and work is in progress.
Posted by: Raza | Jul 21, 2012 10:07:36 PM
"Palestine is important not because it is as beautiful as Tuscany, nor because the Palestinians are suffering, and not even because it is occupied by a Jewish state. What we need to understand is that the Jews have been handed Palestine not because they were so smart or so strong or so devoted, but by Imperial design." http://bit.ly/LGwcmX
Yacov L: "Finally, a note on projection. I never cease to be surprised by Americans, Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders who feel they have a moral right to condemn the Jews for migrating to another land and pushing aside the natives."
None of those states expelled the natives. The survivors of those nakbas are full citizens of the new states on their old land.
Clinton related a conversation he had had with Natan Sharansky who was the only minister opposed to the peace proposal at Camp David in the year 2000. Clinton said Sharansky told him he couldn't support the proposal "because I'm Russian."
Sharansky said he had come from one of the largest states in the world to one of the smallest, and couldn’t conceive of dividing it further.
Go back where you came from Yaacov, or grow up.
Posted by: no | Jul 22, 2012 3:53:19 PM
@No,
I see you conveniently neglected the sentence that follows your quote from Prof. Lozowick's post: "Surely the Jewish case for moving to the land of their history is vastly better than the case of Europeans moving to continents they had no history in."
As for citizenship, the Arabs who remained after Israel was founded in 1948 (now comprising 20% of Israel's total population) are full Israeli citizens (members of parliament, justices of the supreme court, etc.) and far better off than the aboriginals of Australia, New Zealand etc. One can hardly say the same for the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews, almost 1 million of whom were ethnically cleansed from Arab lands (beginning with the Farhud of 1941 -- http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=274079 ) and formed over half the early population of Israel, Talk about a "nakba"!
Not to mention that over the past 3000 years the only independent states that ever existed in what is now Israel/Palestine were Jewish. There never was an independent Arab "Palestine". Indeed, prior to 1948, "Palestinians" generally referred to the Jewish inhabitants. The Arabs of the area referred to themselves as "Arabs", tout court, or more narrowly by regional or tribal affiliations. And the entire area - from Ottoman times and earlier - was generally known by Arabs as South Syria; they considered the name "Palestine" to be a foreign imposition (perhaps rightly since it stems from a Roman appelation inherited from the Greeks that originally referred to an extinct - non-semitic-speaking - group sometimes known as Sea Peoples). It was only in the 60s, after long after the Jews abandoned the name in favour of being called "Israelis", that the term "Palestinians" gained currency.
Posted by: Alain | Jul 22, 2012 7:08:50 PM
I have to admit I don't totally understand the map. Is it saying that one cannot be Jewish and Palestinian? Or that Arabs who live in Israel are Jewish?
I'm also pretty sure that the map on the left is incorrect for 1920 and 1948.
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Comments
No comment .
Posted by: Nasreen R | Jul 20, 2012 6:29:18 PM
Two Quotes:
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can...Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, 1996
"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years time, neither the United nations, nor the United Sates, nobody, will be able to tear it apart." Ariel Sharon, 1973
to Winston Churchill III
Posted by: rmk28 | Jul 21, 2012 12:57:42 AM
I never comment here but, then again, I've never seen anything more purposely false than this entry. Azra, the fact that you can get away with this BS here speaks to the irrationally antisemitic state of the western elite. I'm not offended by the anti-Israel stance (that's to be expected and it's so common as to be trite), what offends me is that I know that a great deal of my fellow freaders are both stupid enough and biased enough to properly absorb the impact you intended here with your unexplained and non-nuanced maps. I'm offended by the fact that your stinky soul will likely succeed in poluting the vacuous ones of some of the stupider readers here. Bravo for the success of your cynicism.
Posted by: cfghj | Jul 21, 2012 1:09:02 AM
Much as I agree that Israeli settlements in the West Bank should be frozen (and in an eventual peace most would have to be evacuated, the others a subject of land swaps), these maps are utter nonsense. For one thing, although the white areas in the first map presumably represent Jewish privately-owned areas (and don't forget that the original mandate - circa 1920 - included what later became Jordan, i.e. over 70% of the entire mandate), the green areas were definitely not privately owned Arab land, but rather public land, i.e. owned by the government. Very little land was privately owned by any ethnic group. Even now, in Israel, the vast majority of lands are owned by the government (which inherited them from the British, who, in turn, inherited them from the Turks). In short, these maps lie and are dangerously misleading. They have no business being reproduced without clear disclaimers.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.ca/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html
Posted by: Alain | Jul 21, 2012 8:19:24 PM
Correction: read "red (areas) above, not "green".
Posted by: Alain | Jul 21, 2012 9:54:02 PM
This is nothing.
"Greater Israel .... describes a large territory, "from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates", comprising all of modern-day Israel, the Palestinian Territories, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, as well as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, Oman, Yemen, most of Turkey, and all the land east of the Nile river." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel
Most of these countries are already ruled by puppets and work is in progress.
Posted by: Raza | Jul 21, 2012 10:07:36 PM
"Palestine is important not because it is as beautiful as Tuscany, nor because the Palestinians are suffering, and not even because it is occupied by a Jewish state. What we need to understand is that the Jews have been handed Palestine not because they were so smart or so strong or so devoted, but by Imperial design."
http://bit.ly/LGwcmX
Posted by: rmk28 | Jul 22, 2012 9:10:08 AM
@MK28,
So now we're quoting a rabid right-wing anti-semite whom even fervent anti-Zionists refuse to associate with?
http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/sept_04/sept_04_22.html
@Raza
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, not his own facts.
Here are the facts:
http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.ca/2012/07/the-maps-of-disappearing-palestine.html
Posted by: Alain | Jul 22, 2012 10:26:59 AM
http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2011-11-09/irene-gendzier-why-the-us-recognised-israel/
Yacov L: "Finally, a note on projection. I never cease to be surprised by Americans, Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders who feel they have a moral right to condemn the Jews for migrating to another land and pushing aside the natives."
None of those states expelled the natives. The survivors of those nakbas are full citizens of the new states on their old land.
Clinton related a conversation he had had with Natan Sharansky who was the only minister opposed to the peace proposal at Camp David in the year 2000. Clinton said Sharansky told him he couldn't support the proposal "because I'm Russian."
Sharansky said he had come from one of the largest states in the world to one of the smallest, and couldn’t conceive of dividing it further.
Go back where you came from Yaacov, or grow up.
Posted by: no | Jul 22, 2012 3:53:19 PM
@No,
I see you conveniently neglected the sentence that follows your quote from Prof. Lozowick's post: "Surely the Jewish case for moving to the land of their history is vastly better than the case of Europeans moving to continents they had no history in."
As for citizenship, the Arabs who remained after Israel was founded in 1948 (now comprising 20% of Israel's total population) are full Israeli citizens (members of parliament, justices of the supreme court, etc.) and far better off than the aboriginals of Australia, New Zealand etc. One can hardly say the same for the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews, almost 1 million of whom were ethnically cleansed from Arab lands (beginning with the Farhud of 1941 -- http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=274079 ) and formed over half the early population of Israel, Talk about a "nakba"!
http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/
Not to mention that over the past 3000 years the only independent states that ever existed in what is now Israel/Palestine were Jewish. There never was an independent Arab "Palestine". Indeed, prior to 1948, "Palestinians" generally referred to the Jewish inhabitants. The Arabs of the area referred to themselves as "Arabs", tout court, or more narrowly by regional or tribal affiliations. And the entire area - from Ottoman times and earlier - was generally known by Arabs as South Syria; they considered the name "Palestine" to be a foreign imposition (perhaps rightly since it stems from a Roman appelation inherited from the Greeks that originally referred to an extinct - non-semitic-speaking - group sometimes known as Sea Peoples). It was only in the 60s, after long after the Jews abandoned the name in favour of being called "Israelis", that the term "Palestinians" gained currency.
Posted by: Alain | Jul 22, 2012 7:08:50 PM
I have to admit I don't totally understand the map. Is it saying that one cannot be Jewish and Palestinian? Or that Arabs who live in Israel are Jewish?
I'm also pretty sure that the map on the left is incorrect for 1920 and 1948.
Posted by: Hektor Bim | Jul 23, 2012 8:22:49 PM
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