| ABOUT US | ARCHIVES | LINKS | RSS FEED | MONDAYS | |

3quarksdaily

An Eclectic Digest of Science, Art and Literature

« A Poem | Main | Monday Poem »

June 18, 2012

Interlude in Brown?

by Omar Ali

Pakistan’s existing political and administrative system is based almost entirely on Western models. but the official national ideology is ambivalent or even hostile to Western civilization and its innovations. In the past this was less of a problem since “national ideology” was not very well developed (Jinnah himself was famously confused about what he wanted and while the Muslim League used Islamist slogans freely during the Pakistan movement, a number of its leaders and ideologues were happy to go along with vaguely left wing justifications for the state once they were comfortably in power after partition), but  ever since the time of General Zia, there has been a steady push to establish a particular Islamist version of Pakistani nationalism as the default setting. The process has not gone entirely smoothly and significant sections of the super-elite  intelligentsia remain wedded to Western left-liberal(and more rarely, frankly capitalist/”neo-liberal”)) ideologies while the deeper thinking Islamists tend towards Salafism, but it has gone further in the emerging middle class and within the armed forces. There, a superficially Islamist, hypernationalist vision has taken root and can be seen in its purest form on various “Paknationalist” websites. PakNationalists

This “paknationalism” is an extremely shallow and rather unstable construct. It is not classically Islamist but it regards Islam as the main unifying principle and ideological foundation of the state. In practice, it is more about hating India (and our own Indian-ness) that it is about any recognizable orthodox form of Islam. It is also very close to 1930s fascism in its worship of uniforms, authority and cleansing violence. People outside Pakistan rarely take it too seriously and prefer to  get their versions of Pakistani nationalism from more liberal interpreters, but the “Paknationalists” are serious and one of these days, they are going to have a go at Pakistan if present suicidal trends persist in the civilian elite.  Their interlude may not last very long, but it is likely to be exceptionally violent and may end in catastrophe.

BOOK-SIZED-Vaiell-Productions-1024x613Some idea of the ambitions and self-image of the Paknationalists can be gauged from a few recent examples; Pakistan's former ambassador to the United Nations, senior diplomat Munir Akram, penned a piece in “DAWN” on 27th May in which he repeated the usual “Paknationalist” themes but went a little further than usual by explicitly suggesting that if the US picks a fight with Pakistan, it may face an “asymmetrical nuclear war”. This, unfortunately, is not an isolated example of an Ambassador Sahib wandering off the reservation.  Former director general of the ISI, Lieut. Gen. Assad Durrani, wrote a bellicose piece a few days earlier in which he suggested (among other things) that we could exchange Dr Afridi for Aafia Siddiqui and then give Aafia Siddiqui the Nishan e Haider (I am not kidding, check it out for yourself). Certified Paknationalist Ahmed Quraishi suggested that the CIA has been at war with Pakistan since 2002, though interestingly he also said that the CIA is doing this to “poison Pakistani-American ties”, (perhaps in a rogue operation not supported by the “good” or soft-touch faction of the US regime?).

 Earlier, Humayun Gohar of “In the Line of Fire” fame wrote an exposition on the rules of Jihad in which he argued that siding with the US in 2001 was good Jihad, but opening NATO supplies now would be a violation of the rules of Jihad. I could go on and on with this, but the bottom line is that the Paknationalist faction of the Pakistani state (let us assume that the state has other factions, as Ahmed Quraishi implied about the American state) seems genuinely upset at the US and is in a confrontational mood. This is evident not just from the fusillade of op-eds issuing from their favored mouthpieces, but also in actions like the refusal to open NATO supply routes, the well-timed sentencing of Dr Afridi and the acquittal of the Faisal Shahzad co-accused. 

But what is sending shivers up the remaining sane spines in Pakistan (see Nusrat Javeed’s superb column in the “Express”) is the fact that this confrontation is not going smoothly. These coordinated efforts could be read a sign of desperation, even of losing the script. Just see how the Afridi affair has proceeded:  First he was sentenced to 33 years in prison for treason and the words “waging war against Pakistan” were used. Trial and sentence were handed out in the tribal areas, using archaic British-era laws (the Frontier Crimes Regulations or FCR) with zero transparency (even the charges were not fully revealed when the sentence was announced). When this led to a backlash in the US (and ironically, just  as liberal American, British and Pakistani columnists had stepped forward to defend the right of the ISI to punish a traitor working for a foreign intelligence agency), the news suddenly changed. In a move worthy of a Lewis Carroll book, the charges upon which Afridi had been sentenced were revealed several days after the sentencing!  And lo and behold, he had not been charged with working for the CIA or running a fake vaccination scheme at all. He had instead been sentenced for being in cahoots with notorious Pakistani Taliban militant Mangal Bagh. That Dr Afridi had spent time in Mangal Bagh’s captivity and paid him ransom was apparently evidence of his “support for Islamic militancy”. This farcical move was instantly applauded in Paknationalist circles as a master-stroke, pulling the rug out from under the Americans (incidentally, also pulling it out from under the liberals who had just defended Pakistan’s right to arrest and prosecute a “traitor”) and, in the words of a prominent anchor, brilliantly changed the script and left the Americans with egg on their face (the doctor they were defending was a militant!). That nobody outside the Paknationalist webring was buying this crap was, of course, not noticed.  

Add to this the comedy of errors being perpetrated around the issue of the resumption of NATO supplies and one has the distinct impression that that the Pakistani establishment doesn’t know what it’s doing;  are we haggling about price? Or about some principle? And what principle are we talking about? If Humayun Gohar is to be believed it is the principle of just versus unjust Jihad, but others have invoked more secular justifications for this blockade. In either case, psyops are not being managed too well. Even supporters are not sure which side is up. But to take this confusion as a sign that Pakistan will soon fold and sheepishly go back to Uncle Sam looking for petty cash may not be correct either. Pakistan is still a large, densely populated, productive land with many strengths. And the establishment still has cards to play. What we may be headed for is a “worse of both worlds” scenario; a confrontation where Pakistan is not strong enough to decisively defeat the Western world and reach the promised land, but is stronger than many outsiders imagine and gets into a prolonged and blood-soaked confrontation by stages such that it drags on for years and ends with anarchy and violence from Kazakhstan to Kolkata.

The security establishment and the new Punjabi Middle class it has nurtured are, in short, more capable than Irfan Hussein thinks, but less capable than THEY think. This is not a safe combination. The Germans, with Kant and Goethe under their belt, could commit national suicide in just 12 years and take 55 million people down with them. Our capabilities are clearly not at that level, but unlike North Korea we have a networked middle class, a large economy, and access to an Islamist ideology that has real historical roots and strengths.  The establishment may be delusional in its belief that the Western world is in the throes of a terminal economic crisis and China is about to rule the world with our JF17 Thunders flying in the vanguard, but the bombs and missiles are real. It could get very ugly. 

To circle back to the other side, one must emphasize that the Paknationalist narrative is NOT deep enough or solid enough to actually work. But it may be deep enough to make an almighty mess as it burns out.  And instead of moving away from their dangerous national narrative and learning to live with our actually existing cultures and history, the establishment is doubling down on the effort to create a new culture and a new history out of little more than wishful thinking and pictures of Jinnah and Iqbal. To most outsiders (and many insiders) it seems hard to believe that they are serious. But for the supporters of the deep state, the current disorder and economic crisis is entirely due to the corruption and mismanagement of the hapless Zardari regime and of “failed politicians” in general. Iron_Guard_by_ce_faa_sabinBelieving their own propaganda, these people are convinced that Pakistan's cooperation with the United States in the so-called war on terror and its pro-Western policies in general are to blame for all its internal and external crises; once the current coterie of corrupt and treacherous foreign agents is removed from power and corrupt politicians in general are sidelined or beheaded, the state will magically transform into an Islamic version of the People's Republic of China. It will be run by the best and the brightest of the security establishment and its chosen technocrats, cleansed of corruption, economically vibrant, and able to assert its strategic priorities in the region in the face of any and all hostility from India, Iran or NATO. That this is not even remotely close to the real situation of Pakistan is neither here nor there. Unless the corrupt and venal civilian regime is able to assert some level of control, matters may be headed into uncharted territory. Not because everyone in the military high command has gone nuts, but because there is just enough nuttiness around to slip into disaster.   We may be, as columnist Kamran Shafi says, in for a very tall high jump. Not for sure, but certainly “maybe”. And that is a very dangerous maybe. Behind the corruption and the material interests so beloved of leftists there is also a dream. And our “dream of the blue flower” may lead to dangerous places.

PS: Yes, I changed the title after this was posted. My original title was "things fall apart", then that got used elsewhere so i was thinking of another one and some late night connection between Chakwal sufi fascism and the Iron Guard suggested itself, but the differences are much greater than the similarities and by morning it didnt look like a good idea. Neither does this one? Perhaps. Suggestions welcome. 

Posted by omar at 12:20 AM | Permalink

Comments

Omar, I really appreciate your view, and I do agree with you that some similarities between this type of secular, authoritarian Pakistani nationalism and classical 1930's fascism do exist. But however I would like to point out, that the base from which thie emerges, the Pakistani bourgeoisie is a weak base for far reaching fascism, that the messy realities of Pakistan and it's neighbourhood require the polity to concentrate its mind, and lastly, that in the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf, these peoplee have found a vessel that will attract their point of view.

Also as suicidal and nihilistic as our politicians are, I think the hard nosed professional opposition of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf will and have forced some evolution on these over-moneyed, corrupt rural hicks we know as the traditional political class.

As one example to play out for the sort of scum that Pakistani society has to evolve from (and I do not consider fascism an evolution) here's a story of PPP politicians aiding and abetting the potential theft of land from a family of sisters after their father died, in rural Sindh:

Meet Nazo Dharejo: The Toughest Woman in Sindh

Posted by: TLW | Jun 18, 2012 11:37:25 AM

Seriously, I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but Pakistan really frightens me.

Posted by: bobby | Jun 18, 2012 1:35:58 PM

Makes sense.One notable thing(to me) about Paknationalists is they appear to be totally unreachable by any reason or information. Their worldview is set in stone. There appears to be absolutely nothing one can point out to say Zaid Hamid or say Musharraf to make them re-examine their assumptions or to make them think differently than they already do on any subject.

Posted by: sadhana | Jun 18, 2012 1:45:09 PM

I wish i had reread the piece and fixed some glitches, but life was too busy, so please excuse any stylistic/grammatical lapses.
TLW, I dont think a Paknationalist takeover is definitely going to happen. I just think its possible.
And I think PTI is more infected with this form of paknationalism then they themselves realize. Thats a risky statement to make. How do I know they are paknationalists at heart and they don't? But I think it sneaks in via Pak studies and Islamiyat classes in English medium schools and you don't even know what a toxic dose you got. Something like that.
I agree that that many well meaning young people got into PTI and are trying to push the traditional corruptocracy in a better direction, but I dont see Imran Khan as being the hardnosed professional opposition. Give him a little more rope and he will hang himself. His basic assumptions (laid out in articles about Jirgas and speeches about Jinnah and Iqbal) are not viable. Just my opinion.

Posted by: omar | Jun 18, 2012 2:03:54 PM

Sir, as always, your awesome piece has set my speculative machinery in motion. My understanding is that for pakistani deep state the 'paknationalism' is just another instrument like talibanism. They may be wrong is assuming (as always) that they can keep them under strict control, but as with the taliban they have been more or less successful so far. The deep state actors pride themselves in being 'tough realists' and 'pragmatic strategists' (with paknationalist leanings, of course). I thave a hunch (and it is only a hunch, no credible proof whatsoever). I think they may be planning some kind of take over. The confrontational mode with the US is as much to do with the OBL incident and the NATO supplies as with the drones and the growing US support for the politicians, the political process and the civil society. American support for the baloch liberation is another very sore point. I think they feel that the confrontation with the US would help them reassert their control domestically. And yes they are losing control and thus somewhat confused and we may be heading for the worse of the both worlds scenario:(

Posted by: waqas | Jun 19, 2012 1:22:44 PM

the ideology behind pak nationalism takes its roots from Islam, one fails to comprehend why the pak-islamist movement should spark such ridiculous fears, the fact Muslims want to reassert their rightful control over their terrirorial integrity should not worry anyone. I do understand the secular wests fears regarding militancy, but such a fear is expected when the well masked modern imperialism policy dictates the rules and leadership for the Muslim masses; by force, by sanctions, by puppet regimes, drones, wars, interference, fundings of nationalist/seperatist movements and propaganda etc. Had the west left the Muslims alone and had let the natural course of action steer their future, the Muslim world would have been largely peaceful.

The west sees Islamist insurgency as threat to their security, but stubbornly refuses to acknowledge itself as the biggest culprit behind it. Restricting the growth of an Islamic state, has left many Muslims in a state of perpetual jahilliyah/ignorance and such actions are then expected, Islamic insurgency is a direct result of western imperialism, which has only bred oppression, physically and intellectually.

The only way to combat problems faced by the muslims is to leave them alone, free to establish an Islamic state under the traditional interpretation of Shariah law, insurgency can be best dealt and punished under Islamic law, not drones and wars, where civilian casaulties will pave way for an increase in the insurgency, TTP is a prime example of American failure, which has only harmed the state, alienated more Muslims and caused deaths of many, one would ask whether this is the US's way of punishing the Pak establishment for 'not doing enough' to combat Pak's former ally, the Afghan Taliban, whom Pak had no beef with anyway.

Posted by: Pakslamic | Jun 19, 2012 5:59:49 PM

Pakislamic, what about Muslims not living in "Muslim" states? will they continue to deal with infidels? what is the plan for them?
And if Pakistan was created so all Indian Muslims could live under Shariah law, why did the rest not come here?
And Pakistan has had many elections ,no shariah party has ever been elected. What if Muslims dont really want it?
more later

Posted by: omar | Jun 19, 2012 9:28:35 PM

It looks like Turkey's elected government has dealt successfully with the "Deep State" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susurluk_scandal). Something similar needs to happen in Pakistan. Of course, they had the advantage of not having legions of brainwashed religious types to deal with in Turkey, thanks to centuries of decline and humiliation at the hands of European powers which forced Mustapha Kemal's hand into forcefully demarcating a "red line" between matters of state and otherworldly impositions on the world of ordinary folks. Sadly, the deep state is not going to retreat easily, as is being seen in another country with a bloated military that's toothless against foreign powers but is ferocious on its own people, Egypt.

Posted by: slr | Jun 19, 2012 11:49:10 PM

So you agree, many Muslims living in other states are having to deal with 'infidels' (as you put it)? I already mentioned this point, let me elaborate a bit more. 
1. Muslims have no state for them to migrate to right now. 
2. Many Muslim countries, but no state for shariah abiding Muslims. 
3. Shariah and an Islamic state is binding under Islam and neccessary for the ummah to progress as a Muslim
people. 
4. Pakistan is the only state with an Islamic ideological basis, carving it out as an another "Muslim majority state" under (mostly) man-legislated laws is undermines the theological basis of the country, where Islam already has it's own system of laws, different than any modern form of democracy (whether Islamic or secular). 
5. Once a shariah abiding state is established, under shariah every Muslim can migrate to the lands, this includes all those Muslims who wish to live in an Islamic state. 
6. This can only happen when the west quits meddling and leaves the Muslim people to decide their fate on their own, theological states should not worry them.
7. It is an unnatural and a foreign concept for Muslims to divide into bickering nationalist states under kufr systems. 
8. The Muslims are the most oppressed people in the world rigt now (70% of all world refugees) UNHCR report. The Rohingya Muslims (most persecuted people with no land) would be welcomed in an Islamic state under shariah laws, what did the secular govt of Bangladesh do? This is just one example of why the Muslims need their own state, at least one such state. 

If Pakistan was created for all Muslims, why didn't all Muslims come? Because it was the opinion of many ullama that to leave their homeland for the Hindus would mean giving up (once) Islamic territory to the non-Muslims. The other group (Pakistan was initially supported by Muslim elite, masses had not shown much interest, until partition was inevitable, ullama realizing this, convinced
masses to migrate.) argued to live among mushrikeen would weaken and oppress the Muslims further, and since partition is inevitable and they need a seperate state for protection, (so they dont get torched while praying inside their masajid) basically both groups had valid reservations. 
In Islam, it is obligatory to end all occupations of Islamic territory, just like Palestinians can not leave their lands to Israelis, neither can Muslims leave theirs, Indian Muslims did not leave their lands forever and it is the belief of Muslims that they will eventually take back their rights and lands, to forgo such a belief can expel one from Islam, as the Quran mentions; 
"The earth belongs to Allah and He will inherit it to whomever He wills of His servants but eventually the earth will be inherited by the Muttaqeen (pious). "(al-‘Araaf: 128) 
hence, to deny the belief and give up on it, will mean falsifying the promise of Allah. Just added this to clarify why many Indian Muslims refused to leave their lands, they felt no reason to leave something that was rightfully theirs. 

I mentioned how modern
imperialism has obstructed the path of returning to shariah for Muslims everywhere, Pakistan is no exception, the ruling elite from way far as '47 has pushed for secular ideals, it wasnt until the 60's (or bit earlier) the calls for an Islamic state were mobilized, the "Nizam e Mustafa" movement gained much popularity during Zia-ul-Haq's time, however violence and sectarian riots (much of it fueled by foreign meddling, no doubt)  the movement was paralyzed, and Zia was eventually assassinated, the movement died, but many Islamic reforms were introduced in the constitution, there are/were parties who lobbyied for shariah law, but are demonized by the puppet regimes backed by the powerful west, this includes all major players including NS, BB, AAZ, Musharraf etc. Lets not forget Swat based TSNM was never a militant organization, had never picked up arms, and used negotiations to establish shariah in their land (which was ironically under shariah during British rule but changed after partition).

Posted by: Pakslamic | Jun 20, 2012 3:40:07 PM

Pakislamic, one thing at a time. If I understand you correctly, infidels should leave Muslims alone to practice Shariah but you seem to imply that there are some infidel countries that should not expect to be left alone by Muslims.
1. India. Are you saying Muslims have to conquer India and impose shariah there? Or will all Indian Muslims simply leave that country once Pakistan becomes the first Islamic state.
2. Spain. You didnt mention it, but I am curious, does it still count as Muslim land or is it the case that if Muslims are thoroughly expelled/killed/forcibly converted, and 500 years pass, then the statute of limitations is past?
3. When Pakistan becomes Madina Saani, will Saudis and Iranians also move there? Will all sects be welcome or just Sunnis?

I ask because this is a liberal blog. We are not used to such comments. It will be helpful if you explain your position more clearly.
My own objection to your comments does not have to do with your intentions. That would be to take them more seriously than they deserve. I just dont think most Pakistanis (and certainly not most Indian Muslims) are eager for your "solution". Paknationalists are a threat not because they are so numerous but because they are concentrated in the Punjabi middle class and the army's officer corps. And even there the typical paknationalist dreams of jihad at night and a job at microsoft by day. The damage, if any, will be partly unintentional...without fully meaning to do so, some paknationalists may make an attempt at putting it in practice.. And this vision, even if it is attempted (as I said, I dont think its inevitable..you may find the army inviting the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to put down the Taliban one day, so my article doesnt mean its inevitable..its one possible path) will fail rather spectacularly. I am just afraid that the attempt may be blood soaked and will lead to great misery...I see absolutely no chance of it being successful in its aims..

Posted by: omar | Jun 20, 2012 8:29:48 PM

Interesting. So it is the non-implementation of shariah that leaves the Rohingya (and presumably the Biharis in Bangladesh) stateless. Is that also why the Mohajirs still feel unloved even today? And the Kohistani women could have remained alive, since the real implementation of shariah would have meant no Youtube video and therefore no slaughter under this impressive example of circular logic.

Posted by: Sam | Jun 21, 2012 4:16:33 AM

One thing at a time? You make a dozen silly assumptions in your post and here I am jotting every thing down for you, each point specifically numbered, practically spoon feeding you. Anyhow following clarifications for your last post;

1. I didnt imply anything of that sort, i'm being very straight up, no hidden connotations, no need to read between lines what isn't there. I am not talking about infidels, you brought that up, as mentioned. What I said quite clearly was that there are Muslims (Not Pakistani) who want to live in a Muslim state under shariah, for instance many of my reverted friends. A Muslim state with a kufr (non-Islamic) system of governance doesn't fulfill the obligations of an Islamic state. 
2. Never said 'There are some
'infidel' countries that shouldnt expect to be left alone'. 
3. Pakistan most certainly doesnt count as an Islamic state (yet). 
4. Does being liberal imply one is unaware of the sharii obligations of returning to Allah's laws? If it is an obligation imposed by the religion, it should also come under the freedom to practise one's religion without hindrance.
5. Most Pakistanis dont even know what or how shariah works, there's massive propaganda against shariah in the media where misconceptions such as no education, no freedom or rights for people of other religions, etc. are promoted, which are contrary to shariah, i.e. ahle dhimmi have their own courts and judges, laws, community etc. Theres so much to shariah that people arent aware about. 
6. No why should Indian Muslims have to leave their homeland? If some wish too, they would obviously be welcomed in a true shari'i state, however, there is no reason for them to leave what rightfully belongs to them. 
7. As for Spain, no clue about that. 
8. When shariah was imposed in Swat for a small period of time, there was a large number of shi'ites and some belonging to different mazhzhaib, the judges would be appointed according to the sect/mazzhab of the person who would issue rulings accordingly. That would be on the personal level however on state level they would have a vote and the largest group would be followed officially i.e. Iran follows the Shiite sect, KSA follows the Salafi school of thought. 

This is not a solution and most certainly not 'mine'. I see the implemention of Shariah as an obligation (the solution it provides for many Muslims is a barakah of Allah) what most Muslims differ is in the methodology of
implementation. As for Muslims who do not want Shariah, I am afraid, cherry picking Islam was never an option given to us by Allah, funny how its okay when democracy dictators secular laws were imposed on Muslims, it was alright, but calls for Shariah set off alarms. Liberal Muslims can practise whatever parts they want, but trying to justify the secular thought and impose it on the rest of the Muslims is absurd. 

Curious..why do you say that, "..you may find the army inviting the Indo-Tibetan Border Police to put down the Taliban one day."?

Sam, those are some shallow observations, "Muhajirs feel unloved"? Yeah like Kashmiris feel unloved? Or the
Maoists? Or the Khalistanis? Thats BS, my family's Muhajir and let me tell you we feel no such thing. 
1. The (liberal ethnically biased) govt failed to help cool matters, that doesnt mean we harbour any ill feelings against the state, in fact what we hate are the opportunistic groups who have exploited these incidents into gaining sympathy votes and have unleashed their terror on Karachiites. Altaf Hussain was instigated by Indians (apparently RAW finds minding their own business too difficult) the guy even underwent  training with Indian commandos, received help from India, and lets not forget who and what Paharee was upto, and what the hell he was doing in Pakistan. However the Muhajir riots pale next to the Gujrat Massacre (lets not open a can of worms now.) 

2. Yes the implentation of shariah would address the issue of groups such as the Rohingya Muslims, as Shariah counters the influence of asaabiya, the nationality/ethnic concept is alien to Islam, that is the essence of authentic shariah. 

3. The Kohistani women are alive, had they been killed their killings would go against shariah, the jirga tradition would be swept away as jahilliyah has no room in Islam
once shariah takes root. 
The good thing is, in Pakistan there is increasing awareness  now when such incidents against women occur the whole country including the SC sits up and takes notice, alhamdullilah. (http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/2012/06/13/shining-india-worst-place-in-the-world-for-women-to-live-poll/)
“It’s a miracle a woman survives in India. Even before she is born, she is at risk of being aborted due to our obsession for sons,” said Shemeer Padinzjharedil, who runs Maps4aid.com, a website which maps and documents crimes against women.
“As a child, she faces abuse, rape and early marriage and even when she marries, she is killed for dowry. If she survives all of this, as a widow she is discriminated against and given no rights over inheritance or property.”
But scratch under the surface and the threats in India are manifold – from female foeticide, child marriage, dowry and honor killings to discrimination in health and education and crimes such as rape, domestic violence and human trafficking."

Posted by: Pakslamic | Jun 21, 2012 11:48:24 AM

Pakislamic brother, you had written: "In Islam, it is obligatory to end all occupations of Islamic territory, just like Palestinians can not leave their lands to Israelis, neither can Muslims leave theirs, Indian Muslims did not leave their lands forever and it is the belief of Muslims that they will eventually take back their rights and lands, to forgo such a belief can expel one from Islam, as the Quran mentions;
".
I think this paragraph led logically to my questions. You have now clarified that India (or Spain) have nothing to fear and will be left alone.
Good.
For the rest, dream on.

Posted by: omar | Jun 21, 2012 12:02:15 PM

"Dream" on? Ya think? lol you wouldnt be so obsessed with Pak nationalists certainly wouldnt be churning out 5 page long essays, if it were only a matter of "dreaming". Good now you got more content to cry foul over.

Posted by: Pakslamic | Jun 21, 2012 1:20:24 PM

A nice sample of the "brainwashed religious type" that is the toxic love child of Mawdudi
and the Military (Military-Mullah Alliance), neither of which had a jot to do with creation of Pakistan (and will likely lead it to its doom, only to reappear again, as they did in Bangladesh, to sow dissension and toxify the body-politic):


Regardless of anything else, they have dealt firmly with both Bonapartism
and politicos utilizing religion in Bangladesh.

Posted by: slr | Jun 21, 2012 3:21:06 PM

PakIslamic, in the shariat utopia, all mazhabs and religions would be open to all? on a day to day basis? so one could go to a sunni court today and a salafi court tomorrow and a hindu court the day after? Will there be courts for atheists? Will the penal code be made by the ulama or elected representatives? Will the ulama be certified by themselves? How shall we know that they are authentic? will there be a separate parliament for each religion? Wake up brother (or sister, as the case may be) the Caliphate is gone for ever. The parrot is dead.

Posted by: Hakim Hazik | Jun 21, 2012 6:01:29 PM

btw, on the dead parrot: http://pakteahouse.net/2010/05/13/the-dead-parrot/

and of course, the Monty Python sketch that started this line of thought: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

Professor Mbokhari's dead parrot rant introduced me to this topic, but the good professor has disappeared off the net. so I am posting his rant here for future generations: The Dead Parrot
http://mbokhari.pkpolitics.com/2009/09/30/the-dead-parrot/
The new and improved
mbokhari: Hello, I wish to support democracy.
Recylist: We’re closing for Jumma prayers.
mbokhari: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this retarded message you posted.
Recylist: Oh yes, the, uh, the Khilafah. What’s,uh…What’s wrong with it?
mbokhari: I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it, my lad. It’s dead, that’s what’s wrong with it!
Recylist: No, no, ‘it’s uh,…it’s resting.
mbokhari: Look, matey, I know a dead system of government when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now.
Recylist: No no it’s not dead, it’s, it’s restin’! Remarkable system, the Khilafah, innit, eh? Beautiful Council of Ulema!
mbokhari: The Ulema don’t enter into it. It’s stone dead.
Recylist: Nononono, no, no! It’s resting!
mbokhari: All right then, I’ll ask pkpolitics posters! ‘Hello, Mister member of the Ummah! I’ve got a lovely fresh Khali Lifafah for you if you wake up…

(Recyclist copies the whole Hizb-ut-Tahrir website and pastes it 10 times.)

Recylist: There, the Ummah moved!
mbokhari: No, it didn’t. That was not your own writing! You copy pasted without attribution. You plagiarized.
Recylist: I never!!
mbokhari: Yes, you did!
Recylist: I never, never, ever, never did anything…
mbokhari: Um…now look…now look, mate, I’ve definitely had enough of this. That system of government is definitely deceased, and when we dumped it not 14 centuries ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it being’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged Jewish conspiracy.

Recylist: Well, it’s…it’s, ah…probably waitng for the Khaleefah!. 9/11! Northwoods!
mbokhari: WAITING for the KHALEEEFAH?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?,
Recylist: The Khilafah is just waiting for Muslims to wake up! Remarkable system of government, isn’t it, sir? Lovely draft constitution! See our website

mbokhari: Look, I took the liberty of examining that website and I discovered that you guys are amusing little pests. Please continue amusing us

(pause)

Recylist: Well, of course the Ummah is only waking up now. You see, you can’t stop talking about the Khilafah, can you? We will conquer Pluto. We will take over Togo and Fiji. We will kill all the Parsis. The Khilafah is coming!!!! VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

mbokhari: “VOOM”?!? Mate, this system wouldn’t “voom” if you put four million volts through it! It’s bleeding’ demised! And, one more thing, nobody is talking about the Khilafah except you guys! YOU bring it up all the time! YOU spam every thread with this Lifafah which is Khali!

Recylist: No no! It’s not Khali. It’s waiting! It’s waiting for the Muslims to wake up.
mbokhari:
It’s not waiting!
It’s passed on!
This system is no more!
It has ceased to be!
It has expired and gone to meet ‘its maker!
It’s a stiff!
Bereft of life, It rests in peace!
If you hadn’t been spamming this website It’d be pushing up the daisies!
Its rational reasons for being are now ‘history!
‘It’s off the twig!
It’s kicked the bucket,
It’s shuffled off it’s mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible!!

THIS.

IS.

A.

MARHOOM

KHILAFAH !!

Recylist: Well. I will pray for you. (O God, destroy the infidels and those Muslims, kafirs really (I just gave a fatwa), who laugh at us. Oh, how they laugh at us !!!)

.

.

(thread goes dead…crickets chirp, the wind whistles. Babies cry.)

.

.

Recylist: Indeed! these are irrefutable arguments that shake and expose the very foundation of grocery totes and brown paper bags!

Recylist: The word “Gro” and “cery” comes from ancient Greek, AND, was only invented in 1576!

Recylist: Only Khali Lifafah can provide the modern convenience of comfort and durability! It says so in our advertising, so it must be true!

Posted by: omar | Jun 21, 2012 6:22:25 PM

It is a pity that people give their comments without actually seeing for themselves the ground realities. The core problems in Pakistan are:
1. Massive Corruption by those in power esp politicians
2. Economic instability ; Lower economic groups and unemployed easy prey to extremists and terrorists.
3. Education ; uneducated are easily misled.
4. Meddling by foreign agencies; as they dont want Pakistan to stand on its own feet and remain politically and economically dependent on them.
5. Terrorism:by extremist elements funded by several elements , local and foreign, and some lenient policies by successive governments.
however i never got a hint that pakistan ever intends to attack(nuclear) any country unless it is attacked and there is risk of loosing a big chunk of the country. The situation is bad in Pakistan but a stable and good leadership can reverse the downslide

Posted by: misdaqaq | Apr 5, 2013 3:08:32 AM

The issue that comes across is that foreigners are responsible for all the ills that exist in Pakistan presently or historically. Though Religious grievances have been amplified thru the impact of the kaffirs yet Islam as a state religion seems not to have solved the sectarian and provincial issues that periodically come to the fore.

One perspective that merits consideration above all: since the blame vests with external forces on the issues that matter to Pakistan,; why is that very few in the country, its rulers, the secular and religious intelligentsia seem unable to provide a logical rational explanation on the reasons why? Beyond the foreign hand.

Is it because externalising the issues and problems is an easy crutch but taking responsibility to address and fix it much harder.

Posted by: Rh | Apr 5, 2013 5:57:02 AM

Post a comment






Subscribe to this blog's feed  

PayAnywhere with iphone credit card swiper

Android Tablet

Bluetooth Headset

2013 New Style Dresses

Compare Car Rental Prices

DHgate.com Wholesale

3QD on Facebook

3QD on Kindle

3QD by Daily Email

Receive all blogposts at the same time every day.

Enter your Email:


Preview 3QD Email

3QD on Twitter

Miscellany

Lijit Search

AddThis Social Bookmark Button

Add to Google

Recent Comments

Grace on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Elatia Harris on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Abbas Raza on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Jonathan on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Bill on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Louise Gordon on The need for critical science journalism

omar on Mohsin Hamid: 'Islam is not a monolith'

Jonathan on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Bill on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

jo smith on Mohsin Hamid: 'Islam is not a monolith'

carlos on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

freddie on Daniel Dennett's seven tools for thinking

Eli on "Everybody Hurts" by Sachal Studios, Lahore, Pakistan

Jalees Rehman on The need for critical science journalism

Dredd on Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories

Dredd on Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories

Scrutineer on Why race as a biological construct matters

prasad on the culture animal

Mitt Romney's Dog on Why race as a biological construct matters

Elatia Harris on The Moral Status of Rocks

prasad on The Moral Status of Rocks

Raza Husain on The Moral Status of Rocks

Fred on Unknown Mathematician Proves Elusive Property of Prime Numbers

Joel Grant on Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories

Tomboktu on Why is Europe so Messed Up? An Illuminating History

Acclaim For 3QD


"I couldn't tear myself away from 3 Quarks Daily, to the point of neglecting my work. Congratulations on this superb site."—Steven Pinker, Johnstone Professor of Psychology, Harvard University.

"I have placed 3 Quarks Daily at the head of my list of web bookmarks."—Richard Dawkins, Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.

"Just wanted you to know I’m one of many who reads and enjoys 3 Quarks....almost daily."—David Byrne, musician, former lead-singer of the Talking Heads, artist, intellectual.

Read more here.

The 3QD Prizes

Subscribe to this blog's feed