June 06, 2011
Hi, my name's Sarah and I'm an ENTP
I’m an ENTP, preferring extroversion over introversion, intuition over sensing, thinking over feeling and perceiving over judging. In case you didn’t know, this is my MBTI® score, or Myers-Briggs Type Indicator®. When I first took on my new role in a leadership development group, I heard everyone throwing around these letters “I’m a J, so I’m going to need to get into the details here”, “I’m going to need some time to process this alone because I’m an I”, etc. I had no clue what these people were talking about, but it all seemed to mean something to them and they would talk for hours on end about their interactions with their teams, their families, and with each other using this jargon.
According to the Myers-Briggs organization, “the essence of the theory is that much seemingly random variation in the behavior is actually quite orderly and consistent, being due to basic differences in the ways individuals prefer to use their perception and judgment.” By taking a test, rating preferences of various situations and activities on a sliding scale, the claim is that your underlying personality type and preference can be mapped. “The theory of psychological type was introduced in the 1920s by Carl G. Jung. The MBTI tool was developed in the 1940s by Isabel Briggs Myers.”
I was a total sceptic. As far as I was concerned, the idea that by answering a few questions, my personality type could be reduced to 4 letters (with some granularity of preference under that) was pure mumbo jumbo. Moreover, I was sure that there must be a degree of self-selection; at some level I would guess what the question was trying to measure and would select an answer based on how I wanted to be rated.
And then I took the test and had the results explained to me by a certified MBTI® practitioner. I have to say, I’ve been totally converted. I did the MBTI® II level, which gives the greater granularity and the results were so spot on, and not necessarily what I would have “chosen” to be represented as, thereby undercutting my self-selection theory. As I scanned through my report, I realized that this test had totally nailed who I am and what my preferences are. It was explained to me that it is certainly possible, and often necessary, for someone to act out of preference, for someone who’s a P like me, preferring to plunge into tasks, to force themselves to be more methodical, but that such “out of preference” activity will never be easy or pleasant for me, often putting me “in the grip”, MBTI® terminology for experiencing extreme stress. And it’s so true; I can be methodical and organized, it’s just never natural or pleasant. Similarly with so many of the other preferences.
What was almost more interesting than knowing my own MBTI® type was knowing the types of team members and having them know mine. It changes so many of our work conversations. Instead of saying to me, “I’m going to make you do this detailed work and you just have to be methodical and organized or else”, team members will either say, “you know, we’re going to have someone else do that spreadsheet because we know it’s not your strength as a P and we’re going to have you do the creative work that you do so well”. Or they say, “we know that as a P this work is going to put you in the grip and we’re sorry about that, but it has to get done and we appreciate you doing work that we know is going to be so painful to you and won’t play to your strengths”. This may not sound like a huge change from the first request, but it really feels like it is. The first blames me for being who I am and attempts to force me to change. The second and third come from a strengths-based approach and acknowledges where my strengths lie and don’t lie in a way that has no judgement attached.
Okay, so what? Aren’t we supposed to be thinking about children and things vaguely related to education here? Well yes. But this all got me thinking about my children; I can make a pretty good guess what my daughters’ MBTI® types are. And when I think about who they are and how they deal with school and home in the context of those types, it does help me get a better view of what is reasonable to expect them to succeed at and what may be things to lighten up about. I’m pretty sure that my older daughter, who’s 11, is an ENTP like me. She’s so disorganized and unstructured, but very creative, casual and easygoing. Of course, this isn’t a license for her to be as big a slob as she wants. To be successful in life she’s going to have to learn how to be more methodical and task-oriented than she is, however painful it is for her. But by recognizing that these things do put her in the grip, as they do for me, and don’t play to her strengths, perhaps I can at least manage my own expectations that this is ever anything that she’s just going to get one day and miraculously find natural.
Maybe you’re reading this saying “duh, you’re a slob, your kid’s a slob, why is that a surprise to you?” And of course, to some extent you’re right. But this gave me a new framework to think about my daughter’s strengths and preferences that I find really helpful. It even helps me have a clearer understanding of my marriage as I think about my husband’s strengths and preferences.
So here’s my thought for the day: is there any use for an MBTI-like test in schools? Now, I can already anticipate the barrage of comments I’m going to get for this and let me try to head a few off at the pass. Firstly, I understand that children’s personalities are quite malleable when they are young - even adults can find that their MBTI® type shifts somewhat over time. Given this, the last thing you want to do is to label a child as something and then pigeonhole them based on that type for the rest of their school career. Also, how can you expect children to have a sufficient level of self-awareness that they can even begin to answer these kinds of questions?
There is a modified version of MBTI® specifically aimed at children is grades 2-12 called the MMTIC®. The claim is that “The MMTIC assessment can help children understand themselves better, and give parents and teachers better tools and insights to reach children with different learning styles.” I’m sure that some schools are already using this, though I couldn’t easily find many examples of this online. Many schools seem to spend so much time judging children, often medicating children who don’t “fit in”. Would having a more scientific assessment of these children’s personality types help mitigate some of this? It wouldn’t, or shouldn’t be a get-out-of-jail-free card, just as it isn’t for me at work. When I’m asked to do more detailed oriented work, I’m still expected to do a good job at it. But a recognition that it is painful for me to do that work and attempts by my teammates to play to my strengths whenever possible really helps.
Moreover, would it help children to deal with each other better? Now I know that my boss is an I (an introvert), even though she really seems to act like an extrovert, I understand that being around extroverts for too long is very draining for her - as much as she loves me. I understand that sometimes she just needs to escape to be by herself and I don’t take it at all personally. If children had a better sense of each other’s preferences, could they learn not take it so personally when Johnny doesn’t want to play today and to understand that he just needs his quiet, introvert time to re-energize? Of course, exposing them to each other’s types could be even more fraught than telling them their own - children can be mean to each other for the silliest reasons. But, if these things could be explained to children in an age appropriate way, is there something here that might help children move from a place of being judged by their peers, teachers and families to be accepted for the preferences they have rather than the ones we would like them to have.
Posted by Sarah Firisen at 09:37 AM | Permalink






















Comments
My wife and her colleagues took the Level II test as part of an HR-sponsored "office retreat." The boss and her chief lieutenant turn out to be strong Judgers; my wife and one other woman, strong Perceivers. Although the uses--and limitations--of the test were carefully explained by the HR representative, beginning first thing the following day, the boss began to insist that the office would run better if my wife would "Get a handle on her P-ness," "Control her P-ness," and work "to reduce her P-ness." "Your problem," she said, "is that you don't realize how much your P-ness affects other people." The boss spoke all this aloud, but never did hear herself. I love "The Office," but you just can't write comedy like this.
Posted by: deweyd | Jun 6, 2011 10:54:56 AM
It is a nice way of categorizing personality types but i wouldn't get too carried away. There is a well known psychological tendency for people to strongly identify with a generic description as if it were more insightful than it actually is. There's a great demonstration by derren brown of this, where he gets a group of people to give them their birth date and a personal item, then goes off for an hour or so before returning with an envelope for each of them in which he had written a long and detailed description of their personality type. The camera records their reactions as they are freaked out by how accurate he was, down to very specific things which they quote in amazement, giving overehelmingly positive accuracy ratings to his personality assessment. Of course the catch at the end is when they all exchange their envelopes and realise they all had the same thing written in each...
This is called the barnum effect, the tendency of people to take general statements of character and turn it into something personally meaningful, for example "you enjoy the company of your friends, but at times you prefer to be alone". These methods to make someone feel like they are being "read" are used by cold readers and psychics to great effect, they're like psychological equivalent of magic tricks.
Now i'm not saying the myers-briggs test is the same thing, it definitely isn't psychic hocus-pocus. What i'm arguing is that if people respond so strongly to generic barnum statements, as in derren brown's demonstration (in three different countries, no less), then how effective are targeted personality tests really? Is it much more meaningful than positively answering a convoluted form of "are you an extrovert?" then being told at the end in a prescient manner that "you are extrovert"? Let's not forget the final segregation into types that so appeals to our social nature of self-identification within groups.
I just want to caution against reading too much into this. At the very least these tests force us to reflect on our strengths and weaknesses, but at worst it's an unhelpful typecasting that may affect a child's development in a self-fulfilling manner.
I'm an ENTP, and had a similar reaction when i first read the result ;)
Posted by: Tevong | Jun 6, 2011 11:03:57 AM
"Your problem," she said, "is that you don't realize how much your P-ness affects other people."
If I had a boss who said that to me, my P-ness would be the least of my problems.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Jun 6, 2011 11:22:09 AM
I'm glad to say that I've never had a problem with my P-ness.
Posted by: J.Hawkins | Jun 6, 2011 11:42:33 AM
I generally agree with Tevong. MBTI is fun and may be helpful to an extent, but I began to doubt it after reading one of their books. They began to explain tendencies that didn't fit as part of your "shadow self." The Skeptic's Dictionary has a chapter on MBTI: http://www.skepdic.com/myersb.html
Posted by: Donal | Jun 6, 2011 12:04:57 PM
The last time I had to take the Meyers-Briggs, I wrote this:
http://www.jumbojoke.com/way_beyond_myersbriggs.html
I originally sent the piece to nevdull, but now various humor sites host it.
Posted by: anonymous | Jun 6, 2011 2:06:56 PM
The four MBTI dimensions are supposed to be categories rather than spectra, aren't they? Yet the tests do not reveal bimodal distributions on any of them. Instead, it turns out most people are roughly in the middle, with some leaning more extravert (for instance), and some more introvert. And I think that's actually the extent of its falsifiability, so, no points. Like astrology, everyone has a particular "type", and all of them have a part to play in the great scheme of life.
Still, MBTI clearly says something. I'm "INTP" and I have some sense of what that and the other types mean. It's just a somewhat arbitrary choice of dimensions, one that owes more to theory than to experimental examination.
Empirical approaches to personality, through testing on a range of attributes and doing factor analysis, have consistently lead to what's called the "Big Five" personality factors, usually known as Openness, Agreeableness, Extraversion, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism. But somehow this hasn't been as popular. Perhaps no-one wants to hear that they have low agreeableness and high neuroticism.
Posted by: Sagredo | Jun 6, 2011 4:29:27 PM
ahhh ahhaaa haa.. yeh, it's interesting but for school kids, I found there are better indicators to help your kids get along in school better... our school system does student support meetings that really are a long way ahead of what it was like in my school. I informed myself on learning styles and test taking styles and teaching styles and sat down and worked with my son on the things the teacher mentioned were a problem and we had a few meetings and now we have a plan. we e-mail eachother, it's great... of course, it's probably only one of a few public schools in the country with these priveleges... at our previous school, I was lucky to get even a canned answer from the teacher as to ways to work with my son.
the US education system has a long way to go before it can even consider this type of testing. why? it would probably only result in a quick/cheap fix to boost the political ends of the closest candidates to the problem and the results would be one more bullshit reason for teachers to skirt around the issue of what they are supposed to be doing (but can't because they are ill-equipped and ill-prepared and ill-supported) and that is, teaching our children how to learn.
Posted by: unfinishedscript | Jun 6, 2011 4:31:20 PM
sorry, my J-ness can be a little harsh sometimes, tho i think it may be P-ness to the extreme, :) it's been years since I took this test, I wonder if I've changed.
I can't remember, I think they said I'm a healer or something, one of the rare such and suches. I was like, "I know, I'm special... this is really wearing on my humility thing I'm always trying do. Damnit."
Posted by: unfinishedscript | Jun 6, 2011 4:36:40 PM
Brian Dunning's podcast 'Skeptiod' had an excellent, well-balanced episode on this subject.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221
Posted by: Frank | Jun 6, 2011 10:02:08 PM
I worked for a Silicon Valley startup that was 'absorbed' by a large East coast Dockers, deck-shoes and pastel polo shirt type corporation. As part of their acquisition they worked hard to make everyone feel hunky-dory so that the rats wouldn't jump ship thereby devaluing their purchase. Little did the rats know about the blood bath later but I digress.
In a 'one-on-one' meeting I had a middle-aged soccer mom HR lady she attempted to launch into what I quickly detected was a Myers-Briggs 'verbal assessment.' I told her if she wanted to talk to me human to human I was available but I was in no mood for a Myers-Briggs brainwash and walked out of the room...I was let go shortly thereafter with a nice parachute. This was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Posted by: anechoic | Jun 7, 2011 7:12:17 PM
You were obviously not deck shoes and pastel polo shirt material.
Posted by: J. Hawkins | Jun 8, 2011 10:14:02 AM
I have done these for work a couple of times.
They are just horoscopes dressed up for managers. Just like horoscopes, people love to read about themselves and believe in some way they are part of an archetype.
I think its all quackery, the last thing I would want anywhere near my kids.
Posted by: Toby Dorn | Jun 8, 2011 11:59:29 PM
I have taken this test twice -- ENFP! -- and it does sound like me. I don't want to belittle it, but I believe that you take all such tests in a spirit of seeking guidance and explanations - or in a spirit of cooperation with a manager. You are therefore predisposed to finding the reading of your personality useful or at least somewhat illuminating. Even if you go to a software that enables an MBTI self-test, well -- you're looking for something, right? Anything that helps to reduce conflict and increase productivity at work is good, including burning a little sage.
I have done an awful lot of reading about this, and have a coupla friends who are skilled professional interpreters of the MBTI. Nothing I've read or heard or experienced convinces me it is science-based, but I have seen it is really helpful IF you are trying to make a group work better. Perhaps there is some special mojo in everyone in the work place agreeing that we all have "gifts differing" -- I'll let you be crazy your way, you let me be crazy mine, and if we know these things about each other, we can be wiser and gentler and get more done.
Big caveat: I would not be comfortable with a manager being privy to psychological test results. The potential for coercion and other abuses is very real -- if the test is woo, or if it ain't.
Posted by: Elatia Harris | Jun 9, 2011 1:05:09 AM
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