November 28, 2008
India cannot pin all the blame on outsiders
Maria Misra in The London Times:
But despite the multi-religious and multi-ethnic origins of terrorist violence the Indian authorities have, until recently, tended to treat only Muslims as terrorists. So while Muslim “terrorists” have been subject to extraordinary laws of detention and trial in special courts, Hindu nationalist “rioters” have been tried in regular courts, or, more usually, not been punished at all.
One of the principal complaints of Indian Muslim groups is the failure to bring to trial any of the Hindu ringleaders responsible for pogroms in Bombay in 1993 and Gujarat in 2002 in which more than 4,000 Muslims died. While the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, and international jihadist groups have undoubtedly trained and funded Indian Muslim terrorists, the chief recruiting officer is often the Indian State.
This is especially true at regional and state level where the police and judiciary are often “captured” by Hindu political interests that have used anti-terrorist laws to pursue political vendettas. The extreme poverty of many Muslims in India, whose status, according to a recent report, was below that of the “Untouchable” caste of Hindus, has increased frustration. While “Untouchable” and other low-caste groups are actively promoted into universities and prestigious state jobs, India's 150 million Muslims, who make up 13 per cent of the population, hold only 3 per cent of state posts. They are even less well represented in the police.
More here.
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Comments
this seems a tad off-point in two different ways.
first, the recent spate of amateur bombings in different cities of india this year and the last has turned out to be the work of indian muslim students, likely funded through overseas links, as misra allows. however, their efforts pale in contrast to what is now emerging: upwards of twenty highly trained and armed men alighting into bombay harbor on boats. if there are links with local groups already within india, these may turn out to have chechen or russian mafia connections, not necessarily ones with radicalized indian muslim groups. we'll know for sure soon.
second, the matter of india's regrettable human rights record, communalized society, imperfect judicial system and other failings is a different question from how to deal with a complex of state apparatuses appended to the nation of pakistan that continuously reroutes american military aid towards funding and training for militants who then undertake terrorist acts. these matters must be distinguished because (i) they do not cancel one another out, and (ii) the international community and civil societies of both nations will have to deal with both challenges very differently.
Posted by: aditya | Nov 28, 2008 9:23:16 AM
Even given every thing Maria Misra writes is true, it does not justify indiscriminate violence and terrorism. The muslims in India have the right to fight for their rights politically and peacefully and then they will have a better chance to achieve their goals. This type of violence whether in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India or Palestine MUST stop. All of us should agree on this and only then we can start to discuss the causes and correct them in each of the societies.
Posted by: Tasnim | Nov 28, 2008 11:38:28 AM
Thank you, Tasnim.
Posted by: Ruchira | Nov 28, 2008 11:58:36 AM
Muslim grievances in India and for that matter all over the world have more to do with fundamental issues within Islam (as well as Orthodox religions in general) rather than the anti Muslim policies in India or other countries.Given Islam's conservative outlook it frowns on women in the workplace.The reason Christians(despite their low-caste status) in India as well as more westernised groups such as Parsis have prospered is the encouragement of their women to work outside the house rather than remain in purdah.This fact alone accounts for a large portion of the disparity in incomes between Muslims and non-Muslims in India.
This is not to excuse violence against Muslims as well as other groups in India,Gujerat clearly has problems and the courts are timid in the face of public opinion.But it would be nice if Ms.Misra recognized the complex nature of charged issues in her writings.Unfortunately the cry of inequality captures the headlines while the underlying material causes for the disparities are ignored.
Posted by: Sumant Rawat | Nov 28, 2008 3:19:07 PM
It appears the US does not have the monopoly on lunatics
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Nov 28, 2008 5:28:25 PM
Dave:
Can you post the link to the above statement? And who is Meyers?
Posted by: Ruchira | Nov 28, 2008 7:19:20 PM
Sumant,
The fact that you can use "low caste status" so casually in your remarks totally undermines your argument...
Posted by: Faraz Zaidi | Nov 29, 2008 4:48:35 AM
That there are low caste Christians is perfectly true. Google Dalit Christian. I didn't read Sumant Rawat as endorsing the devaluation of people based on hereditary occupations..
Posted by: D | Nov 29, 2008 9:35:59 AM
Ru- I see you don't hang out on science sites (but that is the norm for 3 quarks, all is story and ritual, like the rest of human genetic fitness)
Link:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/11/since_kentucky_hasnt_been_subj.php
But I like this place anyway, this human gig is tough, and reality is best avoided.
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Nov 30, 2008 12:05:08 AM
Looking at the fact that there were only 10 terrorists, it seems they have had extraordinary combat training.
They have killed about 40 policemen, and at least two NSG commandos. It sounds really extraordinary to me that they killed two NSG commandos even when they were outnumbered maybe 10 to 1.
The kind of extensive training these guys must of received was topmost quality. Moreover, any such training inside India would have attracted attention. Moreover, the situation in India does not fit Robert a. Pape's analysis. (There are grievances of Indian Muslims. But reality is, the situations are improving at the moment- and Muslims are not cornered enough that they will resort to such behavior.) The name "Deccan Mujahideen" is obviously a phony name. Created by some who do not want to be identified.
I do not think it was work of Pakistan, because of three reasons- political tension has abated a bit between India and Pak and situation in Pakistan is not very good for such operations at the moment. Thirdly Pakistan's army is more or less comparable to India's.
It could be work of a third party. But it is hard to tell who might have interest in creating chaos in India. Politics!
Posted by: Manas Shaikh | Nov 30, 2008 6:14:34 AM
The Mumbai attacks do not fit into the pattern of terrorism witnessed since 9/11. Normally, militant Islamist groups planted or lobbed bombs, sent suicide bombers, or launched quick assaults on their targets. Such attacks lasted for a few hours, if not less. There were instances of hostage-taking, but invariably the terrorists would take the hostages to their camps or hideouts.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C11%5C30%5Cstory_30-11-2008_pg3_2
Posted by: Manas Shaikh | Nov 30, 2008 7:58:12 AM
Dave:
I do actually "hang out" at science blogs (Pharyngula is on my own blog roll). I missed this one and didn't figure out that the Meyers here was P.Z.
But thanks all the same.
Posted by: Ruchira | Nov 30, 2008 10:15:40 AM
Ru-
I apologize for the abrasiveness, as you have always seemed informed and eloquent.
I think the ultimate question is:
"Are humans smarter than yeast?"
Posted by: Dave Ranning | Nov 30, 2008 10:58:59 AM
So jihadists kill innocents in Mumbai, and what do P.Z. Meyers and his flunky protégé Dave Ranning do?
They try to further their "liberal" bona fides by including some alleged ugly American phenomenon in everything they write!
Brilliant work gentlemen! What's up for an encore? How George W. Bush is the "root cause" of the Bombay attacks? Or maybe you're going to pin the blame on the colonial British and connect the dots to the present day British Conservative party?
Posted by: Wade Nichols | Dec 1, 2008 8:11:10 PM
Wade. Have some biscotti.
Posted by: Elatia Harris | Dec 1, 2008 9:42:21 PM
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