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February 28, 2007

Dennett v. Orr, Round V

In Edge.org, the latest in the Daniel Dennett -H. Allen Orr exchange: H. Allen Orr responds to Dennett's open letter:

Dennett asks me to identify some allegedly serious thinkers on religion. I named two in my review but am happy to name them again: William James and Ludwig Wittgenstein. I chose these two as both wrote after Darwin and had training in science or engineering; both were, then, presumably in a position to recognize the challenges posed to religion by science. One may or may not find convincing James's attempt to discern whether religion is possible in an age of science or Wittgenstein's interpretation of religious practice. Indeed I myself have reservations about their claims. But I find it shocking that someone writing at book-length on religion would fail to discuss, or even mention, their views or those of their intellectual equals. What, for instance, does Dawkins think of Wittgenstein's picture of religion? Does he reject Wittgenstein's idea that believers sometimes use language in a way that differs from (and is incommensurable with) how we normally use language? Would he even count Wittgensteinian-style religion as religion? And, if not, is it still child abuse? Is it evil? (For more on Dawkins and Wittgenstein, and from a bona fide philosopher, see Simon Blackburn's superb review of Dawkins's earlier book, A Devil's Chaplain (The New Republic, December 1, 2003).)

The bottom line is that Dawkins, by ducking serious thought on religion, made things far too easy for himself. One result is that the naïve reader of The God Delusion can walk away from the book wholly unaware that serious post-Darwinian thinkers have wondered if religion is really so simple as Dawkins pretends.

Posted by Robin Varghese at 12:16 PM | Permalink

Comments

In all of the intellectual critiques of Dawkins et al., I have yet to encounter arguments for or against the existence of supernatural personalities. Why is that? Theism is the issue at hand, but it seems that only atheists care to address it.

Posted by: kynefski | Feb 28, 2007 4:04:33 PM

kynefski,

One reason why this argument is so horn-locked is that while it's presented as a debate over theism, when you scratch the surface it's about something else entirely. While Dawkins (mostly) restricts his inquiry in TGD to so-called supernatural deities, if you read him more widely, (or Dennett, Weinberg, Harris et al,) what he really opposes is not belief specifically in supernatural agents, but in any non-demonstrable "belief." Ironically, many proponents of the "religious" mindset aren't concerned about belief (in a "religious" context) in the way science defines it--factual, zero sum, yes or no truth. They are concerned about the languages we use to ascribe meaning (which don't require a god to be "religious"). This is treated as though it were a dodge, but it isn't. Literal religious belief is a halmark of fundamentalism, but to make it central to all religious thought radically misses the point. Religion is not about facts, it's about meaning. This is why you don't see many religious "arguments" for supernatural "personalities." The argument for or against a god is secondary at best. What's primary is how we contextualize our lives, individually and as a society, in the face of limitation and imperfection.

The really radical extension of this is that no one is free from the religious impulse. We all construct meaning from sets of facts, and this meaning does not, can not derive from the facts themselves. We all, secular and "faithful," construct narratives and myths to understand the world. Science, insofar as it fills in the blanks in between data points to tell the story of factual reality, is no exception.

I myself am an athieist, but I freely admit that my atheism is interpretive, not empirical.

Posted by: Deets | Feb 28, 2007 5:57:39 PM

"Religion, another large chapter in the history of the human ego"
-William James

Now what was that Mr Orr?

"Religion is poison"
Mao
(one of Mao's only clear insights)

Posted by: Scott Ahlf | Mar 1, 2007 11:04:16 AM

Great post deets

Posted by: johnasdf | Mar 8, 2007 7:56:25 PM

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